Market research -> would you be interested in a high output humbucker that taps into a PAF?

Alegree

Just a quick thread to see if this is worth my time producing.

I've finished my first prototype, and everything works as intended - so a production piece could be on the cards.

I've managed to make a set around about the output of a JB + a slash neck - tapping into your standard '50s PAFs.
Would you be interested in such a thing?

Opinions, thoughts, etc much appreciated!

lysander

Personally I'm more into humbuckers that tap into good single coils, and I'm not really into vintage PAFs, however I do find the idea pretty cool and I like pickups that have a dual personality in general.

Alegree

lysander said:

Personally I'm more into humbuckers that tap into good single coils, and I'm not really into vintage PAFs, however I do find the idea pretty cool and I like pickups that have a dual personality in general.

That was one good thing about these - the vintage crew usually have wimpy coil splits because of the low winds. 
Here we have a decently chunky split when they're in full output mode. Never before has a PAF set and a good coil split been achievable.

Funkfingers

For this to work, each coil of the humbucker has to be tapped to achieve the lower, more traditional output level. Some picky baskets might argue that the bar magnet material needs to change too.

If you are building these pickups to order, can the customer specify the number of turns per coil? Some people prefer the "honk" of a slight coil imbalance. (THINK: Seymour Duncan Brobucker.)

Alegree

Funkfingers said:

For this to work, each coil of the humbucker has to be tapped to achieve the lower, more traditional output level. Some picky baskets might argue that the bar magnet material needs to change too.

If you are building these pickups to order, can the customer specify the number of turns per coil? Some people prefer the "honk" of a slight coil imbalance.

Yes that's exactly what I've done - no idea what you mean by the magnet needing to be changed. I can make them with any alnico that one hears as being 'vintage accurate'.

I see no reason why I couldn't make them to a customers specifications - but there is the fact that the full output is partly made of 42awg, which makes coil geometry estimation a little bit trickier.

CasperCaster

I've long thought this was an area worthy of experimentation - I assume this is a similar approach as the old MightyMite pickup from 40 years ago? The six wire humbucker where each coil had a tap within it (like a tapped single coil), and where the coils could also be split? If you can make it work, then I'd be interested, and as you say hot humbuckers often sound better split than PAF's (it's fundamentally a dcr thing isn't it - all things being equal a 6-7k 'single coil' is always going to sound fuller and more authorative than a 'single coil' with a dcr <4k). And presumably it would be possible to deliberately mismatch the coils in humbucking mode, using one full and one tapped coil, sort of like a SD 59/Custom hybrid. And perhaps replace the slugs from one coil with alnico rods.......

.......think I need to switch off and go to bed now!

impmann

I'm not a high gain player, but wouldn't a high gain A2/A3 magnet humbucker sound a bit flabby. Yet an A5 or higher low wind PAF sound 'wrong'?

Genuine question, not being awkward! 

guitarfishbay

Duncan 59s are a5 and sound pretty good.

impmann

guitarfishbay said:

Duncan 59s are a5 and sound pretty good.

Erm... I'm not a fan! Maybe thats just me, though...

Alegree

impmann said:

I'm not a high gain player, but wouldn't a high gain A2/A3 magnet humbucker sound a bit flabby. Yet an A5 or higher low wind PAF sound 'wrong'?

Genuine question, not being awkward! 

Well,  these are a bit unique in the way that the full output wind is about 75% 42 awg - so it retains a lot of treble and clarity. I don't think alnico 2 in the bridge would become flabby at all. The neck might begin to if you're using it for massive distorted chords. There's no reason these couldn't be made with entirely 42 awg - a PAF coil, then a tap, then some additional 42 like slash pups (which I have incidentally done with the neck).

I was trying to get a good amount of variety going  with some 44 on the bridge though.

Alegree

CasperCaster said:

I've long thought this was an area worthy of experimentation - I assume this is a similar approach as the old MightyMite pickup from 40 years ago? The six wire humbucker where each coil had a tap within it (like a tapped single coil), and where the coils could also be split? If you can make it work, then I'd be interested, and as you say hot humbuckers often sound better split than PAF's (it's fundamentally a dcr thing isn't it - all things being equal a 6-7k 'single coil' is always going to sound fuller and more authorative than a 'single coil' with a dcr <4k). And presumably it would be possible to deliberately mismatch the coils in humbucking mode, using one full and one tapped coil, sort of like a SD 59/Custom hybrid. And perhaps replace the slugs from one coil with alnico rods.......

.......think I need to switch off and go to bed now!

Yes that sounds like mine - 6 output wires.
It definitely works - I've got them loaded and working in a guitar right now and I'm very much enjoying them thus far! 

It's not really a DCR thing - it's capacitance (deciding the resonant frequency) and output - both of each are semi related to DCR though.

Your hybrid idea is great - I hadn't thought of that before. Definitely possible.

slacker

What is the point? 

Is it for a PAF type main sound with a volume and gain boost?

Is it a high gain sound with a switchable clean? 

IMHO it's a compromise so make the strongest part the main sound. So it's a PAF with a boost or a Slash with a reduction. 

guitarfishbay

Well on the face of it, it's a passive version of what Fishman Fluence pickups are doing, which is multiple unique voicings with one pickup.  The idea is pretty cool on paper so it'll depend on the execution.  It means you can have one guitar and record parts with very different sounds, as opposed to needing a second guitar for that different texture.

My only experience with a hot A2 pickup is an A2 JB, which while I like it I do feel it is quite dark/congested in the high end.

Alegree

Personally I dislike JBs. I always found them very unarticulate - my opinion is that the massive mid range hump gives an artificial clarity to it. The full output wind here is nearer to a custom, which is very much liked with an alnico 2.

There may be a compromise with the magnet if you prefer  high output & low output pickups with different ones. But if you like them both with the same (I'm feeling alnico 5 is best for these at the minute), there's no compromise at all - both are great as stand alone tones.

Alegree

slacker said:

What is the point? 

Is it for a PAF type main sound with a volume and gain boost?

Is it a high gain sound with a switchable clean? 

IMHO it's a compromise so make the strongest part the main sound. So it's a PAF with a boost or a Slash with a reduction. 

I'm confused. If i can make both exactly the way they're made - just with a tap in there, how is there any compromise? neither is in any way inferior to the real thing.

andy1839

It's an interesting concept, I'm sure that's what PRS was going for with the switching on the 513 pickups and Gemini pickups have been doing something similar for a while with their range. 

I always liked the idea, especially with single coils though, say a tele bridge that does a really thick tone then taps to a weaker 50's style.  

Funkfingers

Like dis? http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/53-tapped-tele/

Except, of course, with Broadcasters, "Nocasters", Telecasters and Esquires, the early Fifties tone IS the thicker one.

ICBM

impmann said:

I'm not a high gain player, but wouldn't a high gain A2/A3 magnet humbucker sound a bit flabby. Yet an A5 or higher low wind PAF sound 'wrong'?

Genuine question, not being awkward! 

That's exactly what a Duncan '59 (8K, A5) and Custom Custom (14K, A2) are!

Two of my favourite pickups, although I already see you don't like the '59...

I generally don't like A2 on lower-wound pickups, they usually sound thin to me. A5 is fine on higher-wound ones but I particularly like the thicker softer sound of the CC.

Funkfingers

All of this discussion just goes to illustrate that electric guitar pickups do not exist in isolation. The host guitar, amplification, venue and playing style all have some bearing on the nett result. 

Offer the same aftermarket pickup to half a dozen guitarists, you are likely to get half a dozen different opinions of it.

impmann

Funkfingers said:

All of this discussion just goes to illustrate that electric guitar pickups do not exist in isolation. The host guitar, amplification, venue and playing style all have some bearing on the nett result. 

Offer the same aftermarket pickup to half a dozen guitarists, you are likely to get half a dozen different opinions of it.

Amen!

Alegree

So to conclude, there appears to be interest in such things.
With so many opinions on which magnets should match  I think I'll need to offer my models with multiple magnet options.

Thanks for the responses.