Cricket: Champions Trophy

RandallFlagg

A solid win for England today in the opening match of the Champion's Trophy, against Bangladesh.

Gutsy batting from Root and with an injury too. Not the strongest opposition but not a push over by any means. 17 more matches to go up to 18th June.

England currently 3/1 favourites to win. We'll see.

scrumhalf

Injury worries, though.

I think we're a good bowler light - Willey seems to be a bit haphazard over ten overs and I'm not sure about Ball yet.

wackojacko

Yep that was a superb batting performance. Knocked off with ease. Was a little nervous when BNG were 260-2 after 40 overs or whatever it was, in the end 305 was a poor effort. Despite being a batting paradise, am a bit nervous at our bowling attack, it's been a concern the past 18months. Better teams will punish us. However, I reckon we can chase anything down anyway so it's a good job our batting is top drawer. 

wackojacko

Ps regarding Bairstow or Roy - I was listening to the Tuffers n Vaughan show a few weeks ago and Vaughan suggested that Bairstow is 'possibly' a little unpopular in the dressing room. He is so competitive and a little overly aggressive in his encouragement/criticism during team meetings that it disrupts the team....a little bit like KP. At the time I laughed it off, refused to believe it, but is there any other reason why he's not playing? He'd walk into most international teams. So maybe there's an element of truth to it.

RandallFlagg

Agreed on the concern over bowling. Against the better teams, I can see a few matches coming down to the last few overs and I fear we will get very wobbly and get smashed out the park and blow it. I know death bowling is high pressure but England seem to be good at choosing the wrong tactics at times.

Heartfeltdawn

If JB was anything like KP, they'd give him a wide berth. They haven't figured out where to put him at yet. The way things are going, he may end up opening as Roy's on one of those horror runs where everything you touch with the bat turns to shit. He's a good player at this level, this is a form issue rather than a not good enough issue. Hales got his runs but still looks like a flat tracker to me. It's not the first time he's been out trying to reach a milestone with a glory shot. If Root is the personification of the thinking cricketer, Hales is quite the other way. 

The bowling is a real worry. Right now we have Wood making his way back from injury, Willey's totally out of sorts after injury problems (during the SA series the cameras picked up on the amount of time he was spending with Otis Gibson in the nets), Finn is playing with the Lions and was bowling second change yesterday (3 for 54 from 7 doesn't suggest top nick), Jake Ball needs more development, Woakes might be out for the tournament, and Stokes has a dodgy knee. Roland-Jones got a run out against SA but obviously lacks international experience. I'd be on the blower to Stuart Broad right now. No ODI games for ages but he had a good Big Bash and he's a big match player. 

One thing: why do England underbowl their spinners so much? We were a seamer down when Woakes left, and still Moeen didn't bowl a full quota despite being the most economical guy for England (8 overs for 40). This has happened a lot in the last couple of years. 

rocktron

I was listening to the cricket commentary in my car while driving home from work on the M25 and getting caught in a motorway jam. Bumble was talking about the huge size of the outfield when chasing down a hit to the boundary. 

Which is bigger in terms of the outfield size, and not seating capacity - Lords or The Oval?

I've always thought that The Oval is the biggest ground in England.

Legionreturns

rocktron said:

I was listening to the cricket commentary in my car while driving home from work on the M25 and getting caught in a motorway jam. Bumble was talking about the huge size of the outfield when chasing down a hit to the boundary. 

Which is bigger in terms of the outfield size, and not seating capacity - Lords or The Oval?

I've always thought that The Oval is the biggest ground in England.

As someone that played at the oval a number of times in my youth, I can tell you that in my memories at least, chasing down a boundary was like this...
https://room208.org/blog/media/tumblr_m09y37u3zJ1qim2zwo1_500.gif

Heartfeltdawn

rocktron said:

I was listening to the cricket commentary in my car while driving home from work on the M25 and getting caught in a motorway jam. Bumble was talking about the huge size of the outfield when chasing down a hit to the boundary. 

Which is bigger in terms of the outfield size, and not seating capacity - Lords or The Oval?

I've always thought that The Oval is the biggest ground in England.

It's one of the bigger ones I've run around on. Never played at Lords but the Oval certainly seems bigger. The old Hampshire ground at Southampton was big but the largest I've ever played on was the RGS pitch at Worcester. Had an U-17 county game there, boundaries out max and it was huge. Taunton by comparison was small. Really have to hit your lengths there otherwise you get dispatched.  

scrumhalf

The pitch at the Oval was over to one side of the ground, hence one long boundary. Hales might not have been caught had he played that shot at the other end.

scrumhalf

Oh, and joy of joys, Jeremy Coney is part of the TMS team today.

They should make every effort to make him a permanent part of the team, his comments are insightful and he has a great sense of humour.

Heartfeltdawn

Jeremy Coney is fabulous. That story about him buying a guitar on tour is great.

"Coney made his first-class début - for a New Zealand Under-23 XI against Auckland - when he was eighteen, a tall, gangling, youth who dressed as the flower-power children did at that time. His shoulder-length hair prevented him from being selected for Wellington in one age-group team. When he arrived in Australia as a replacement for an injured Glenn Turner in December 1973, his cricket gear consisted of a yellowing and heavily plastered bat, which bore the name of his club, Onslow, in large letters on the back. The team manager, R. A. Vance, now Chairman of the New Zealand Cricket Council, gave Coney some money and told him to go and buy a new bat. Some hours later Coney returned with a guitar and made do with other players' cast-offs. His love of music is still with him and he frequently enlivens bus tours by playing his guitar. Today his hair style has changed markedly and his only problem with cricket clothing is that the trousers are not always long enough."

wackojacko

Yeah the bowling looks like it lacks a bit of nouse. 

Agreed on Stuart Broad - in home conditions too I'd much rather pick him over Finn. Finn had/has a lot of talent but he has been in and out and badly managed by the ECB. He has a cracking strike rate throughout his career but is a confidence player. Which I don't understand to be honest. As a top level sportsman, you should have the confidence in your ability to perform.

with Woakes out for the tournament, I'd be amazed if Rashid doesn't play throughout. Woakes and rashid add to the lower order batting, without both of them, our long tail looks pretty short. And Rashid will get wickets.

anyway, the rained out result earlier between NZ and Aus is great for us, but would have loved to have seen NZ beat them. Think they would've won too without the rain

Heartfeltdawn

wackojacko said:

Yeah the bowling looks like it lacks a bit of nouse. 

Agreed on Stuart Broad - in home conditions too I'd much rather pick him over Finn. Finn had/has a lot of talent but he has been in and out and badly managed by the ECB. He has a cracking strike rate throughout his career but is a confidence player. Which I don't understand to be honest. As a top level sportsman, you should have the confidence in your ability to perform.

with Woakes out for the tournament, I'd be amazed if Rashid doesn't play throughout. Woakes and rashid add to the lower order batting, without both of them, our long tail looks pretty short. And Rashid will get wickets.

anyway, the rained out result earlier between NZ and Aus is great for us, but would have loved to have seen NZ beat them. Think they would've won too without the rain

I think it was Graeme Swann on TMS who said that Finn was incredibly hard on himself, more so than anyone else in the camp. He isn't alone in needing the confidence: look at Mitchell Johnson over his career. When his confidence was low, his action fell apart. If Finn can stop overthinking and trust his action again, he'll come good.

Woakes could generally be relied upon for 10 overs. Any replacement has to do likewise. This is where the problems come as a lot of people around him aren't automatic 10 over choices. Rashid, Willey, Finn, and Ball aren't those guys and it's asking a lot of Roland-Jones to come out and be that guy. Although the ECB is reluctant to go with Broad ahead of other people, right now he is the sensible choice. You know what you're going to get and he's an attack leader, something we don't have at the minute. 

wackojacko

Heartfeltdawn said:

wackojacko said:

Yeah the bowling looks like it lacks a bit of nouse. 

Agreed on Stuart Broad - in home conditions too I'd much rather pick him over Finn. Finn had/has a lot of talent but he has been in and out and badly managed by the ECB. He has a cracking strike rate throughout his career but is a confidence player. Which I don't understand to be honest. As a top level sportsman, you should have the confidence in your ability to perform.

with Woakes out for the tournament, I'd be amazed if Rashid doesn't play throughout. Woakes and rashid add to the lower order batting, without both of them, our long tail looks pretty short. And Rashid will get wickets.

anyway, the rained out result earlier between NZ and Aus is great for us, but would have loved to have seen NZ beat them. Think they would've won too without the rain

I think it was Graeme Swann on TMS who said that Finn was incredibly hard on himself, more so than anyone else in the camp. He isn't alone in needing the confidence: look at Mitchell Johnson over his career. When his confidence was low, his action fell apart. If Finn can stop overthinking and trust his action again, he'll come good.

Woakes could generally be relied upon for 10 overs. Any replacement has to do likewise. This is where the problems come as a lot of people around him aren't automatic 10 over choices. Rashid, Willey, Finn, and Ball aren't those guys and it's asking a lot of Roland-Jones to come out and be that guy. Although the ECB is reluctant to go with Broad ahead of other people, right now he is the sensible choice. You know what you're going to get and he's an attack leader, something we don't have at the minute. 

Flintoff was the same, especially early in his career. Confidence player. I dunno, always rated Finn very highly and had high hopes when he burst into the scene but he has been knocked down so many times by the ECB. On his day unplayable. Still youngish so has a chance of a great career. 

Mithchell Johnson: I was at the EDgbaston test during the 2013 ashes, chanting with the whole crowd: "he bowls to the left, he bowls to the right, that Mitchell Johnson, his bowling is shite" 
and six months later he blew us apart and ended a couple of players careers in the process. Great bowler. 

Id go with Broad but the selectors won't. They will go Tony RJ or Willey/Jake Ball.

cj73

So, went out to take son on a sponsored walk with NZ cruising at 30 overs gone...Come back in to see England had won...

Wasn't expecting that

Heartfeltdawn

South Africa confounding expectations by not choking in a semi-final...

Pakistan: what a side. So consistently the side that can go from abject rubbish to gold-plated legends in the space of a few days. 

RandallFlagg

Sri Lanka turn over India!

RandallFlagg

England vs Aus - England going well after losing 3 early wickets. C,mon Stokes & Morgan, who will be first to 100?

scrumhalf

RandallFlagg said:

England vs Aus - England going well after losing 3 early wickets. C,mon Stokes & Morgan, who will be first to 100?

Quite comfortable in the end for England. Great catch by Roy, but it still doesn't make up for his poor form with the bat.

The fact that there are only eight teams and they don't have to play each other 65 times before one team gets eliminated and they have to play each other another 65 times has made this a great competition.

Made greater by the fact that the Aussies have been eliminated. Who says the weather isn't great?

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

RandallFlagg said:

England vs Aus - England going well after losing 3 early wickets. C,mon Stokes & Morgan, who will be first to 100?

Quite comfortable in the end for England. Great catch by Roy, but it still doesn't make up for his poor form with the bat.

The fact that there are only eight teams and they don't have to play each other 65 times before one team gets eliminated and they have to play each other another 65 times has made this a great competition.

It's so much better than the tedious World Cup format.