Old bloke needs a 50 wat valve combo amp

ivor-honda

I am new to this group and only came here to see what amps were for sale but I have been drawn in by the depth of knowledge and information that’s here.

I am an old bloke that needs a 50 wat valve combo amp so I can join a blues band

I am a fan of the Clapton tone from the Bluesbreaker / Cream era, but my max funds is £450.00 so it’s going to be second hand amp.

At first I thought well just get a Marshall but to my cost I have found out there is so many models numbers and some seem specific to certain types of music, metel etc.

I nearly bought a Engl 50w Screamer until I read some comments from previous posts that its not the best amp for blues.

I have also been thinking about a Blackstar HT stage 60.

So helpful advice on what would be a good 50 wat combo for someone who wants to sound like Clapton (and I can’t afford a JTM 45 either, I checked).

Regards

Colin

Fez

The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe is very popular for this application. 40 watts but loud enough and can drive an extension speaker. If you want to go head and cab Jet city JC50H and Harley benton 2x12 with v30 speakers.

ICBM

Welcome to the forum .

This is probably going to sound odd to some people coming from me , but - do you really need 50 watts? That's a lot of power and volume (and associated cost and weight) these days, when most soundmen and bar managers like to keep stage levels much lower.

I do like the big sound of a big amp too, but even a Marshall Bluesbreaker or JTM45 - which I would certainly describe as a 'big' amp - is only 30W. If you were after a Marshall I would probably go for something like a DSL40C though, they're much more flexible as well as smaller and cheaper.

If your budget is only £450, I would seriously look at Jet City - they're almost unbelievably high quality for the very low prices they cost, and are roughly in the Marshall ballpark for tone. They do make combos, although the heads seem more popular.

The Fender Hotrod Fez mentioned is an excellent amp, and very popular with blues players, but it won't do a good Marshall/early Clapton sound.

Blackstars are good amps, but they have a distinctive dark modern voicing (even their more traditional-style amps) which a lot of people don't get on with.

ecc83

I am loathe to say so but I think the Stage 60 would be 'too much' amp for the job? They can go monster loud and I am sure you will find the sound you want but pretty heavy. The single 12" 60W version would I am sure do the job. Also check out the HT-40. 'Blues', don't need to knock walls down for that? If you can find a Series One 45 with the original Neo Centuries THEY are a pretty easy heft. Of course maybe you are built like Arnie and my concern for your back does not apply?

I would say this wouldn't I but! A Blackstar amp will be very reliable and a service at Northampton very reasonable with any known mods thrown in for free.

Dave.

nick79

If it were me i would look at a used Marshall DSL40C. 40 watts so loud enough,  versatile and sounds pretty good. A friend of mine has a Blackstar HT40 and that seems pretty good but to my ears doesn't sound as good as the Marshall - That's not to say its bad, it's just my personal opinion. 

professorben

The Blackstar HT-20 is a great little amp. 
The DSL-40 also pretty good. 

Id seriously look at the Jet City amps. 
Dont be put off by the price. 

simonk

I agree regarding Jet City. I regularly gig a JCA20HV and it staggers me how good it sounds for what I paid for it. Thomann have some very attractive bundles on heads and cabs.

bazxkr

nick79 said:

If it were me i would look at a used Marshall DSL40C. 40 watts so loud enough,  versatile and sounds pretty good. A friend of mine has a Blackstar HT40 and that seems pretty good but to my ears doesn't sound as good as the Marshall - That's not to say its bad, it's just my personal opinion. 

I like the DSL40C too...don't forget you can have 20 or 40 watt power depending on the size of place you playing. Also not too huge a box of tricks to lug around.

Also has the choice between clean & crunch and gain 1 & gain 2 so 4 tone options...and FX loop, I like the tone as is but sure some posts on here favour upgrading the speaker to a creamback. SH around £350

gordiji

Coda have Engl screamer on offer new at £539. They don't get much love on the forum but i've had mine 7yrs problem free & for the price can't see much better because it does excellent cleans, a good crunch & a singing lead all footswitchable as is reverb, plus a vol boost on all sounds also footswitchable. So it might not do the best edge of break up sounds but it's very versatile. ( the footwsitch is extra.) You won't need any pedals.

ivor-honda

I would like to thank you all for your advice.

I was concerned about what wattage I would need, I didn’t want to be drowned out by the rest of the band but on the other hand I didn’t want anything to big that I couldn’t lift, and weight is an issue for me because of my medical history.

I have never even given Jet City a second look but I will from now on.

So I have on the list lo look at:

Marshall DSL 40C, Engl Screamer (is still in the frame) and Jet City as well.

Thanks again for all your help and the search continues now to find one.

Regards

Colin

zepp76

Another vote for the Marshall DSL40C, cheap, reliable and great sounding although could do with a speaker upgrade at some point. I have one and a JTM45 which is seeing the most use at the moment but I still plug into the DSL now and again.

professorben

Don't get me wrong. 
I love the Screamer and have only just sold mine. 

It had beautiful cleans and lovely gain. 
Took pedals very very well. 

Voxman

Just watched Stevie Nick's Soundstage with Waddy Wachtel playing in her band - he knows a thing or two about tone and he loves the Blackstar Artist 30 (he runs two of them).  Might be worth checking out.  

ecc83

Blackstar Artist 30. Lovely amp by all accounts but 50lbs and well over budget and I doubt there are many around second hand as yet.

It is also a fixed biased (pretty sure) 6L6 amp and so will probably be even louder than the Artisan 30 and them's wicked.

LOVE! To sell you on a Blackstar but. Horses for courses?  (actually, a S/H Artisan 15 would probably suit. Loud for a 15W and even louder if you replace the Greenback with a 100dB/W/mtr speaker. )

Dave.

LuttiS

If you want to try something different, maybe try some of the new Joyo Bantamps.. They are 20w valve pre-amp, but they back a punch. I have the Zombie and i can't get over how close it sounds to a proper Mesa. I play it through a Blackstar 112 cab, and its plenty loud enough for gigging.

For blues they have the "BlueJay" amp, £130 fothe head, get a nice cab with that, you're well under budget and you can lift it with your little finger (Ola ref ) 

here's bluejay demo - 

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd2TQjFRa7Q

and here's Ola demoing MeteOR (Orange) and ZoMBie (Mesa Boogie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1_lrfGOWgI

english_bob

I'd agree that 50w might be more than you need, particularly if you want to get your distortion the old fashioned way by turning the amp up.

I have a Laney Lionheart L20T combo, which is a 20W 1x12". It's definitely loud enough to compete with a band in small venues, and the preamp sections of the two channels are based on classic Marshalls (clean is a JMP, drive is a JCM800). At lower gain settings the drive channel definitely gets you in to the '60s Clapton ballpark with a suitable humbucker equipped guitar. A used example should fall within your budget, which will also mean you'll get your money back if you decide to sell it on.

Alternatively, if you want to go old school it's worth looking for something based on the 18W Marshall 1974 / 2061 amps, which will sound similar to the big JTMs and JMPs you'd equate with that era, but without the police involvement or premature hearing loss. A WEM Dominator should be well within your budget and although they're ugly buggers they'll get you in the ballpark. 

I haven't played one myself, but the general consensus seems to be that for Marshall type sounds without paying silly money, Jet City amps are well worth considering. They seem to be marketed more towards the hot rodded high gain Marshall crowd, but I know that @p90fool likes their 22 Custom for stuff that's not a million miles from what you want. @shaunm's been through a few amps for a band with a similar vibe too I think.

shaunm

@english_bob is right here I think. 50 watt and still wanting to get your amp to overdrive is a big ask in most venues. I now use a 50 watt Marshall and to get it to drive the way I like it (think old school stuff like this  

) I needed an attenuator. That was in a club with 300 people in. There's no way I could wind up 50 watts without an attenuator.

For pub gigs I used a Laney Lionheart 4x10 combo for years and absolutely loved it, perfect for that application. In truth still very loud. 

Id also agree that the 18 watt amps would be a perfect choice as they can be wound up to sounding like a good 60/70's classic rock sound without tearing the front row apart.

ivor-honda

Thanks again, and I am very pleased and impressed with all the advice that has been given.

Just to expand a little, I do have a Gibson les Paul which I intend to use, and as I previously mentioned I do have a love for Clapton’s Gibson period of playing, to me Gibson and Marshall seem to go together like bread and butter or Ant and Dec.

But on the other hand I feel that the tone is the thing that I am really looking for.

Also we had a practice last week and I took along my Blackstar ID:Core 40 watt (I just use it at home ) but I was only just audible with it turned up to 11 and when it came to my turn to knock out a solo or two it just didn’t cut through.

This is why I started looking at slightly larger wattages, but I am beginning to wonder if valve wattages and solid state wattages are not necessarily the same.

So it now whittled down to 2, Marshall DSL 40C and the Jet City but I have only seen 20 watt Jet City combo’s for sale.

Not wishing to muddy the water but what about Marshall JCM 800/900? Also just looking through eBay and I have seen a BUGERA V55 Vintage Voiced 2-Channel Valve going really cheap, maybe because it is or is it? Seems to be an off shoot of Behringer which isn’t one of my favourite manufacture, also maybe more of a ‘Fender’ tone.

simonk

Valve watts and solid state watts are generally two different things.

Regarding the Jet City and volume, I quite often gig mine in medium sized pubs/venues without sticking it through the PA. It's plenty loud enough with lots to spare, and that's with a 97dB efficiency speaker. Unless you're crushingly loud I can't imagine needing more volume.

ICBM

ivor-honda said:

Also we had a practice last week and I took along my Blackstar ID:Core 40 watt (I just use it at home ) but I was only just audible with it turned up to 11 and when it came to my turn to knock out a solo or two it just didn’t cut through.

simonk said:

Valve watts and solid state watts are generally two different things.

No - the *watts* are exactly the same. But… (apologies for the long technical post, but bear with me .)

There is a huge factor apart from the power - speaker efficiency. This is as important as the amplifier power to the final volume. @ecc83 may know the exact spec but I would guess the two 5" speakers in the ID Core are no more than about 90dB sensitivity, which is around 10dB lower than a typical efficient 12" guitar speaker such as a Celestion V30. 10dB is equivalent to ten times the power - so you would get the same volume from only a *4W* amp through the V30 as from the Blackstar.

And that's even if the 4W amp was a similar solid-state amp to the ID Core. A 40W valve amp through the same V30 will be enormously louder - easily loud enough to compete against a loud drummer.

There's also another factor which *is* related to the difference between valve and solid state too - a valve amp can be pushed into power-stage overdrive, which produces up to double the clean power. A solid-state amp generally can't, without sounding awful - some are deliberately limited to stop them doing so. That gives another 2:1 advantage to the valve amp. Finally there are differences in the frequency response and dynamics which also make valve amps 'cut' better in a mix, which again seem to produce about a 2:1 advantage.

It wouldn't actually surprise me if a Blackstar HT-1R - that's a 1W valve amp - through a V30 would match the volume of the ID40.

I would say that a decent 10W amp will probably be enough, from a pure volume point of view - 15 to 20W definitely will be. 40W would give you enough flexibility to get a more or less completely clean sound at that volume, if you need it.


All this may surprise some people here who know I like 100W amps - I do, but not for the volume. I just like the huge deep tone they give, and the clean headroom.

slacker

There are many people here more qualified than I to explain but here goes...edit I c b m  s post wasn't there when I was typing.

A watt is a measurement of power not volume. Solid state amps reach there rated power and sound nasty. A valve amp will reach that point and sound good. A Marshall JMP 100w on full tilt will dish out about 189w. Some manufacturers are conservative with their ratings and some are not. A 50w amp with a 103db speaker will sound a lot louder than a 92db one. Speaker size, speaker area, cab design, where it's pointed, will all make a difference in volume. 

Short answer get an amp that's loud enough for you and forget wattage as a measurement.