If I go DI to the pa from my Zoom G3X ...

close2u

... would it be awfully silly of me not to take an amp along?

I'm getting (fingers crossed) hopefully geared up to do gigs soon with current band.

A sound guy came to our practice last night and asked if my Zoom multi fx G3X could go DI to a pa.

I wondered about not lugging the amp and travelling light ... just using the Zoom in to a pa.

What do you reckon?

Should I always have the amp just in case even if I do go the direct route?

 

chrispy108

Depends how much you trust the monitors and the soundguy at the venue.

In an ideal world, a quiet stage (no amps, just drums), is much easier for the soundguy, as he's got more control over the soundmix onstage and out front.

But in the real world, with shit monitors and bad soundmen, it's nice to be able to turn round and crank the volume if needed.

ESBlonde

What Chrispy said, but if the bass player also fancies a pod type of thing, then suddenly the stage gets very controlled and even a crap soundman has a chance. It can seem a bit odd at first, you might also consider carrying your own IEM setup in a briefcase.

close2u

Thanks - things to think about.

Interesting that you both talk about what it's going to sound like for me on stage (and out-front).

I was expecting folk to comment on the wisdom (or otherwise) of relying on a small box of technology without a back up.

maltingsaudio

From my experience provided you know the Zoom/pod ect inside out so if something goes wrong with the programming (or you forget to turn it up!) you can figure it out and solve it and you have some sort of monitoring its a great idea. ( the amount of times I've been sworn at because some dickhead musician hasn't turned his equipment or computer up)  Don't program in heavy reverbs or delays though as that can go horribly wrong in a live situation. 

Add an electronic kit with more than left and right out, di'd bass  lots of practise and easior life for all 

close2u

I don't use reverbs for the songs we do ... I do use compressor quite a lot (funky soul rnb etc).

I use delay on one or two only.

Drummer has an electronic kit.

Bassist can go DI I think.

 

maltingsaudio

close2u said:

I don't use reverbs for the songs we do ... I do use compressor quite a lot (funky soul rnb etc).

I use delay on one or two only.

Drummer has an electronic kit.

Bassist can go DI I think.

 

Your welcome on any of my gigs!

ICBM

close2u said:

I was expecting folk to comment on the wisdom (or otherwise) of relying on a small box of technology without a back up.

I'd be inclined to get another DI-able box as a backup - preferably battery powered so you don't have to take a second power supply (which is also one of the good things about the Zoom - keep batteries in it, but put a bit of paper between two of them so you can't accidentally turn it on and waste them) - even if it's as simple and cheap as something like a Bad Monkey pedal, which does have a 'mixer' output.

Or a tiny cheap amp which you can use as a monitor - something like a Line6 Spider 15, which also has an emulated DI so that works as a backup without needing to mic it either.

Many options these days, if practicality is more important than "the best possible tone". It's amazing what you can get away with if you have to.

koneguitarist

I have not tried my G3X into pa yet, but I have a couple of patches, with an amp and speaker simulation in ready in case of amp failure.

It's a good sounding unit so should be fine.

close2u

I'm surprised at the responses to be honest .... I thought there's be folk telling me I'm a fool to even think it ...

 

The idea of a back-up multi-fx or amp with DI capability makes sense.

Maybe even a 2nd Zoom G3 unit

 

@ESBlonde re: the IEM ... for monitoring my own sound?

 

ESBlonde

@close2u if you all go electronic in the band and have a 'quite' stage, then the sound engineers job is just easier. From the bands point of view you would be looking for a quick, reliable and consistently great monitor sound.
The best way to achieve this is to take a split of your lines to the Main desk near the snake head and feed them to your own small mixer (preferably digital). That mixer sends only to the bands IEMs as separate mixes each. That way you can save all the settings including and dynamic control, effects on instruments or voices. Each mix can be unique so your guitar and your voice could be dominant in your ears while the bass has bass and drums with a bit of voice and guitar. The drummer has radio 4 and the drums, the singer has a bit of everything and 'more me' etc.
The whole package can run a few bob, but it all packs into a single large brief case and is absolutely wonderful once you get used to it. Then you just arrive at the gig and plug in, your monitors are as perfect as you left them and the FOH engineer will sound check you in about 5 mins and get a great sound.
So then the band carries an electronic kit, a bass a guitar or two and a large briefcase. You can all travel anywhere in a single car or even do fly dates around Europe with no technical difficulty and have great sound.
If you all sell your heavy amps and stuff you can neutralise the up front cost too!

monquixote

I gigged with a POD 2 for ages due to having no transport. 

My typical approach was to put the left out to the PA and the right out to whatever amp was available as backline just to use as a monitor. If the sound guy and kit was decent I'd just use monitors but if I couldn't hear I had the option of the amp. Perhaps invest in something like a ZT as a backup. 

ICBM

I'm in two minds as to whether it's easier for the sound engineer! Actually, in a small venue where backline for the instruments and the acoustic drum kit will fill the room, it can be much easier to just do it the old-school way with only vocals through the PA, but only if - and this is a very big if usually - the band are experienced at setting up their equipment, mixing themselves and willing to listen to outside input for levels and balance.

When this is done right, it can produce magical results in a small space, and sounds much more natural and 'live' than putting everything through the PA, to me. And if the band are really familiar with their equipment and the relative tones and levels they can soundcheck in five minutes or less as well. But sadly it's far more common that the band don't do it right and you get the typical balance problems, guitars too loud and/or directional, vocals inaudible, band complaining that they can't hear themselves and all the usual small-gig problems.

At that point it's probably better to give the soundman full control... although this is not only more work, it then has the opposite problem that the band are entirely reliant on him/her for monitoring and need to be trusted to make the band sound the way they want to out front. Unfortunately bands with ego problems and who won't listen to advice and sound engineers who aren't really interested in what the band want are all too common at small gigs.

It is nice to be able to go to a gig on the bus with an instrument in a gig bag and a preamp thing to just go straight into the PA though...

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

I'm in two minds as to whether it's easier for the sound engineer! Actually, in a small venue where backline for the instruments and the acoustic drum kit will fill the room, it can be much easier to just do it the old-school way with only vocals through the PA, but only if - and this is a very big if usually - the band are experienced at setting up their equipment, mixing themselves and willing to listen to outside input for levels and balance.

When this is done right, it can produce magical results in a small space, and sounds much more natural and 'live' than putting everything through the PA, to me. And if the band are really familiar with their equipment and the relative tones and levels they can soundcheck in five minutes or less as well. But sadly it's far more common that the band don't do it right and you get the typical balance problems, guitars too loud and/or directional, vocals inaudible, band complaining that they can't hear themselves and all the usual small-gig problems.

At that point it's probably better to give the soundman full control... although this is not only more work, it then has the opposite problem that the band are entirely reliant on him/her for monitoring and need to be trusted to make the band sound the way they want to out front. Unfortunately bands with ego problems and who won't listen to advice and sound engineers who aren't really interested in what the band want are all too common at small gigs.

It is nice to be able to go to a gig on the bus with an instrument in a gig bag and a preamp thing to just go straight into the PA though...

My thoughts. Spot on, just wish more bands would go out front to listen to themselves.

close2u

this is all great insight and educational for me as I haven't played that many gigs and am yet to gig at all with this new band

keep any further thoughts coming

Fez

We do as ICBM describes but our amps are not huge, 20 to 50 watt. We sometimes put a bit of guitar in the monitors from an emulated o/p  to help the drummer. We always try and listen to the mix at sound check from the audience perspective and respond to comments. The wags help as well which is good. That's when we are playing with our rig and we don't have a sound man.

close2u

I ran this idea past the bass player yesterday and he said he can go DI from his amp and he could use his amp facing in towards him as his own monitor ... alongside any other monitors we have.

ICBM

That's a good idea, especially if you put it where the drummer can hear it as well. You don't need it loud, just enough that you don't need as much bass in the main monitors - the less you have in the monitors other than vocals, the better… you then don't need the levels as high for the vocals to be audible, so there's less feedback and you can often get the vocals slightly louder overall too.

thomasw88

Sorry. But never seen an electric kit live in a pub that sounds better than an acoustic one. Our drummer did one gig with it and admittedly the volume was better, but the overall sound of an electric kit and in turn the full band sound was much worse. Also, unless you have excellent iem sticking guitars only thro pa is not a pleasant or rewarding experience. Not saying it cant be done but there is a noticable difference imo.
Getting everyone to play their instruments at the correct volume for the venue is a much better experience for punters and musicians.

close2u

I sent the sound guy the various comments posted here and he replied:

"... everything Di'd with no back line can sound a bit stale, especially if the drums are electronic as well. What I would suggest we look at is using a di box from your peddle board, that will give me a signal at the desk to boost solos, and use the looped signal from the Di box to your amp as well, so you can set you're own back-line normal playing level. I will bring a DI box to try out. The bass amp already has a Di output, so doesn't need a box, and I can use that to boost him if needed, but for small gig's that probably won't be needed. If you are going to use an electronic drum kit, I'd put that through the monitors, as well as the vocals, so everyone can hear it."

ICBM

Excellent… a soundman who not only knows what he's talking about, he sounds like he cares too!

They do exist, although sometimes it's forgivable to think they don't .