I think my pedal board is dangerous. help!

adamm82

I have a basic pedal board and bought a cheap Caline power supply for it which seemed a good deal and the reviews were good.

I always had the feeling that I could feel electricity whilst using it but thought maybe I was just imagining it. But it's causing my amp to buzz and when I plugged it in the other day there was a spark from the plug.

I've tried in different sockets and the problem remains fiddled with the cables. Is the cause the power supply or is it something I am doing wrong? 
I have it rigged as follows, tuner-compressor-OCD-BB Preamp-delay-looper
 
Also happens with different amps and different guitars. 

ICBM

Sounds like there is a problem with the power supply - if it's one with a separate power box (like a laptop charger) that plugs into a distribution unit on the pedalboard, the fault is in the power box part. The buzz is a symptom as well.

In theory if your amp is properly earthed and you always connect the cables before switching on, it isn't actually dangerous because the system will be earthed via the amp, but this is still not good practice and you're right to be concerned.

steer

That sounds bad. Try unplugging some of your pedals and see if the same thing happens.

Sounds like you had a bad power supply - if  still under warranty then send it back. 

kipple

adamm82 said:

I have a basic pedal board and bought a cheap Caline power supply for it which seemed a good deal and the reviews were good.

I always had the feeling that I could feel electricity whilst using it but thought maybe I was just imagining it. But it's causing my amp to buzz and when I plugged it in the other day there was a spark from the plug.

I've tried in different sockets and the problem remains fiddled with the cables. Is the cause the power supply or is it something I am doing wrong? 
I have it rigged as follows, tuner-compressor-OCD-BB Preamp-delay-looper
 
Also happens with different amps and different guitars. 

I played through the same power supply just this weekend and it gave me an electric shock
My daughters boyfriend bought one and I was setting up a pedalboard for him with it. 

The unit gave me an electric shock through the Metal tip of selector switch of my guitar and shocked me repeatedly . I removed the power supply and the electric shock stopped.
I will be looking into informing trading standards as these units are obviously dangerous.
It was this unit here..
 http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/druckpig1/_DSC0505_zpsco1wxf91.jpg

adamm82

kipple said:

adamm82 said:

I have a basic pedal board and bought a cheap Caline power supply for it which seemed a good deal and the reviews were good.

I always had the feeling that I could feel electricity whilst using it but thought maybe I was just imagining it. But it's causing my amp to buzz and when I plugged it in the other day there was a spark from the plug.

I've tried in different sockets and the problem remains fiddled with the cables. Is the cause the power supply or is it something I am doing wrong? 
I have it rigged as follows, tuner-compressor-OCD-BB Preamp-delay-looper
 
Also happens with different amps and different guitars. 

I played through the same power supply just this weekend and it gave me an electric shock
My daughters boyfriend bought one and I was setting up a pedalboard for him with it. 

The unit gave me an electric shock through the Metal tip of selector switch of my guitar and shocked me repeatedly . I removed the power supply and the electric shock stopped.
I will be looking into informing trading standards as these units are obviously dangerous.
It was this unit here..
 http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/druckpig1/_DSC0505_zpsco1wxf91.jpg

That's exactly the same as I bought. I'll never use it again. It looked the part but I think it's hazardous.

I bought a new simple one this past weekend from the local guitar shop.

ICBM

It won't be that unit which is the problem, that's essentially just a low-voltage distribution box with a bit of extra regulation, the problem is the box which goes between that and the wall and should look like a laptop charger.

@Danny1969 has reported finding Chinese-made power supplies with poor isolation between the mains side and the low voltage side, it sounds like these may also be an example.

If the guitar and the pedalboard were connected to an earthed amp this still shouldn't happen though - this means something is amiss with the amp's earth, or the wall socket/wiring. Although there are some modern amps, eg Roland Cubes, which are intentionally not earthed (they're double-insulated) - was it something like that?

adamm82

ICBM said:

@Danny1969 has reported finding Chinese-made power supplies with poor  isolation between the mains side and the low voltage side, it sounds like these may also be an example.

If the guitar and the pedalboard were connected to an earthed amp this still shouldn't happen though - this means something is amiss with the amp's earth, or the wall socket/wiring. Although there are some modern amps, eg Roland Cubes, which are intentionally not earthed (they're double-insulated) - was it something like that?

the strange thing I tried it with different amps and different guitars and swapped round the patch cables removed some pedals and tried it and it was still happening. It's a mystery.

I now have a simple daisy chain set up for now with the same pedals and it's no longer happening.

kipple

ICBM said:

@Danny1969 has reported finding Chinese-made power supplies with poor  isolation between the mains side and the low voltage side, it sounds like these may also be an example.

If the guitar and the pedalboard were connected to an earthed amp this still shouldn't happen though - this means something is amiss with the amp's earth, or the wall socket/wiring. Although there are some modern amps, eg Roland Cubes, which are intentionally not earthed (they're double-insulated) - was it something like that?

When I was using it I was either playing through a Mesa Trem o verb or a Fender EVH 5150 LBX and I am sure they are both earthed. The 5150 is brand new.
The two occasions It zapped me I was in different buildings.
I am probably overlooking something that isn't earthed

timmysoft

I had one of these psu's. Sent it back for being absolutely shit. 

How theyre allowed to sell such dangerous and poorly made products, I'll never know. 

ICBM

kipple said:

When I was using it I was either playing through a Mesa Trem o verb or a Fender EVH 5150 LBX and I am sure they are both earthed. The 5150 is brand new.

The two occasions It zapped me I was in different buildings.
I am probably overlooking something that isn't earthed

The Trem-o-verb is definitely earthed, and I'm almost certain the 5150 will be too - the big models certainly are. That makes it likely there's poor earthing where you were using them.

In any case replacing just the power supply box (the laptop charger type bit) with a better-quality 18V job should fix the problem without needing to replace the whole thing, if you don't want to.

kipple

ICBM said:

kipple said:

When I was using it I was either playing through a Mesa Trem o verb or a Fender EVH 5150 LBX and I am sure they are both earthed. The 5150 is brand new.

The two occasions It zapped me I was in different buildings.
I am probably overlooking something that isn't earthed

The Trem-o-verb is definitely earthed, and I'm almost certain the 5150 will be too - the big models certainly are. That makes it likely there's poor earthing where you were using them.

In any case replacing just the power supply box (the laptop charger type bit) with a better-quality 18V job should fix the problem without needing to replace the whole thing, if you don't want to.

The caline power supply belongs to my daughters boyfriend so for now he will not be using it.

I appreciate your advice re a better quality 18V power supply but I wouldn't know where to look to get one or how to to tell the difference between a good one or bad one and I would be concerned I will end up buying a 18V supply from eBay that is just as poorly made and dangerous 
Could I just go to maplins to get an 18V supply. 

I have had another look and the 5150 came with a EU type two pin mains lead and shaver type adapter which I have now changed and also there is Furman PQ-3 in the chain which has a ground lift switch so I suspect those may be the problem in conjunction with the dodgy Caline power supply.
Thanks

ICBM

kipple said:

Could I just go to maplins to get an 18V supply.

Yes - there are three requirements: same plug type/size to connect to the distribution unit obviously, same polarity, and at least high enough current rating - higher is OK. If all that matches then it will work, and if it's from somewhere like Maplins then it should pass proper UK safety regs. There can still be noise problems with some supplies though, it depends on what they're originally designed for as to whether they're filtered enough for musical instrument use.

kipple said:

I have had another look and the 5150 came with a EU type two pin mains lead and shaver type adapter

From Thomann? They really shouldn't be doing that for sales to the UK, but it seems common.

kipple

The 5150 came from Gear4music.com

Thanks for the help on the power supply I will definitely look into getting one.
Cheers Ian

kipple

ICBM said:

kipple said:

Could I just go to maplins to get an 18V supply.

Yes - there are three requirements: same plug type/size to connect to the distribution unit obviously, same polarity, and at least high enough current rating - higher is OK. If all that matches then it will work, and if it's from somewhere like Maplins then it should pass proper UK safety regs. There can still be noise problems with some supplies though, it depends on what they're originally designed for as to whether they're filtered enough for musical instrument use.

kipple said:

I have had another look and the 5150 came with a EU type two pin mains lead and shaver type adapter

From Thomann? They really shouldn't be doing that for sales to the UK, but it seems common.

Is the voltage critical or could I use 24v instead 

ICBM

kipple said:

Is the voltage critical or could I use 24v instead 

I probably wouldn't - not without knowing how the unit is spec'ed inside. In theory if the individual outlets are regulated with 78-series regulators then usually up to 35V is OK - although the 18V outlet might not be regulated, in which case that could rise to whatever the input voltage is.

The problem you may be having finding an 18V supply is that the plug polarity is to be tip-negative, which is quite unusual outside musical-instrument applications.

If you could measure the actual voltage of the dangerous supply that may help, although it would be best to clip the probes on rather than touch it!

kipple

ICBM said:

kipple said:

Is the voltage critical or could I use 24v instead 

I probably wouldn't - not without knowing how the unit is spec'ed inside. In theory if the individual outlets are regulated with 78-series regulators then usually up to 35V is OK - although the 18V outlet might not be regulated, in which case that could rise to whatever the input voltage is.

The problem you may be having finding an 18V supply is that the plug polarity is to be tip-negative, which is quite unusual outside musical-instrument applications.

If you could measure the actual voltage of the dangerous supply that may help, although it would be best to clip the probes on rather than touch it!

Ok Thanks. I will stick to looking for an 18v