Pedal order help

Cheesyballs

Hi. I am new here and this is my first post. After retiring many years ago and selling all my gear, I have decided to start playing again. However, alot has changed. I picked up a Kramer assault 220 plus (emg actives). A blackstar ht5 metal and an orange 2x12 vintage 30 cab. Now for my problem, I have yet to get all the pedals I want but currently have. Ehx wailer wah (tb). Tone city fuxx fuzz (tb). Tone city Marshall distortion (tb). Boo tube screamer 808 clone (tb). Tce spark booster full size (tb). Digitech black 13 scott iann (buffered) in that order into the front of the amp. Which way would you order these? Im getting very confused. Also have a hardwire phaser and donner analog delay in effects loop, in that order both true bypass. Sorry for the essay but my head is spinning. Any advice would be amazing. 

MrMusic

Orders will chop amd change depending on your taste and how different pedals work together.

i'd probably go:-
- EHX Wailer Wah
- Tc spark boost
- boo 808 
- Tone city - Fuzz
- Digitexh 13
- Tone City - Marshall

MrMusic

Maybe move the fuzz nearer the wah if it doesnt work aswell where i suggested 

english_bob

Most of the time it only matters what order your pedals are in if you're using more than one at a time.

Most of the time there isn't really a right or wrong way to do it, only what sounds good to you (there are a few "health and safety" no-nos- mostly just don't put anything between the amp and the speaker cab, and avoid putting distortions in the effects loop as it *can* damage some amps).

For stuff like this, we'll usually talk about a "signal chain"- it's a metaphor rather than an exact scientific description of what happens, but imagine that a note starts in your guitar and travels through your pedals in order and eventually comes out of the speaker. The chain starts with the guitar and ends with the amplifier (specifically the speaker).

If it was me, I'd go:

Guitar

Fuxx fuzz

Wailer wah

Phaser

Boo 808

Tone City Marshall 

Black 13

Spark boost


Then in the loop:

Delay


Some fuzz pedals are fussy about being first in your signal chain and need to be able to "see" your guitar pickups to work properly. If another pedal is switched on between the guitar and the fuzz, or if a pedal with an always-on buffer is there, it'll sound wrong. This might not be the case with your fuzz, but if it is you'll hear it.

Wah pedals sound very different depending on whether they're before or after your distortion devices- before is what you've heard if you listen to just about every wah-wah usage in rock music.

The distortions don't really need to be in a particular order unless you plan to "stack" them- that is, to use more than one at a time. People disagree about which is the best order to do this, so it's best to try different combinations of the pedals you have to see what sounds good to you and what doesn't. I put the booster at the end of the chain so you can increase the level of signal going to your amp which will either make it more distorted, or more louderer depending on how the amp is set, but again, have a play. 

Regarding delays and modulations- I prefer modulation effects first and delays after, but both ways can sound good. I also prefer phaser before distortion rather than after- you'll hear a pretty dramatic difference in sound. Either way is allowed.

jamesguitar

There's no absolute right or wrong to this stuff, but here's what I would do -

- EHX Wailer Wah
- Tone city - Fuzz (also try before the Wah)

- boo 808 
- Tone City - Marshall
- Tc spark boost

- Digitech 13


Fuzz pedals tend to want to go first in the chain, but worth experimenting with before and after your Wah - both approaches are classic, but just sound different.

Your 808 style pedal can also be used to boost the gain in your distortions (which is what happens when you put a boost before an overdrive/distortion as opposed to after it), so your Spark Boost will be better after your overdrive and distortion (and will act as more of an overall volume/solo boost for either pedal).

When you're running multiple pedals and cables you lose a bit of tone, so it's good to have a buffered pedal either at the start or end of the chain to redice that a little.

Funkfingers

Wah after rip-snortin' Fuzz allows tonal shaping. Wah before Fuzz makes for less distinctive tonal changes because everything ends up as a square wave. As mentioned above, it also seems to reduce the dynamic response of the Fuzz.

Cheesyballs

MrMusic said:

Orders will chop amd change depending on your taste and how different pedals work together.

i'd probably go:-
- EHX Wailer Wah
- Tc spark boost
- boo 808 
- Tone city - Fuzz
- Digitexh 13
- Tone City - Marshall

The fuzz is really quiet. So the boost needs to go after. Thanks so much

Cheesyballs

english_bob said:

Most of the time it only matters what order your pedals are in if you're using more than one at a time.

Most of the time there isn't really a right or wrong way to do it, only what sounds good to you (there are a few "health and safety" no-nos- mostly just don't put anything between the amp and the speaker cab, and avoid putting distortions in the effects loop as it *can* damage some amps).

For stuff like this, we'll usually talk about a "signal chain"- it's a metaphor rather than an exact scientific description of what happens, but imagine that a note starts in your guitar and travels through your pedals in order and eventually comes out of the speaker. The chain starts with the guitar and ends with the amplifier (specifically the speaker).

If it was me, I'd go:

Guitar

Fuxx fuzz

Wailer wah

Phaser

Boo 808

Tone City Marshall 

Black 13

Spark boost


Then in the loop:

Delay


Some fuzz pedals are fussy about being first in your signal chain and need to be able to "see" your guitar pickups to work properly. If another pedal is switched on between the guitar and the fuzz, or if a pedal with an always-on buffer is there, it'll sound wrong. This might not be the case with your fuzz, but if it is you'll hear it.

Wah pedals sound very different depending on whether they're before or after your distortion devices- before is what you've heard if you listen to just about every wah-wah usage in rock music.

The distortions don't really need to be in a particular order unless you plan to "stack" them- that is, to use more than one at a time. People disagree about which is the best order to do this, so it's best to try different combinations of the pedals you have to see what sounds good to you and what doesn't. I put the booster at the end of the chain so you can increase the level of signal going to your amp which will either make it more distorted, or more louderer depending on how the amp is set, but again, have a play. 

Regarding delays and modulations- I prefer modulation effects first and delays after, but both ways can sound good. I also prefer phaser before distortion rather than after- you'll hear a pretty dramatic difference in sound. Either way is allowed.

Cheers. Thankyou

Cheesyballs

Thanks for all the help people. If the spark boost is before my buffered distortion would the eq on the boost work. Need more treble on black 13. Or would the boost be better at the end?. Decided wah (can use as a filter) first then fuzz. No change in sound swapping the others. Just not sure now about black 13 anx boost order

english_bob

Cheesyballs said:

Thanks for all the help people. If the spark boost is before my buffered distortion would the eq on the boost work. Need more treble on black 13. Or would the boost be better at the end?. Decided wah (can use as a filter) first then fuzz. No change in sound swapping the others. Just not sure now about black 13 anx boost order

In general you'll find that any effect is subtler before distortion than if you have it after.

Having the boost first means that any EQ tweaks you make affect the sound going in to the distortion, whereas with the boost after, you're altering the sound coming from the distortion. Again, trial and error is probably the best way.

This episode of That Pedal Show goes in to the ways EQ and distortion can be made to interact.

Wazmeister

Welcome aboard Cheesyballs !

mike_l

Are you using the Blackstar for any drive or is it clean with drive coming from pedals?

Assuming amp drive I'd go
Guitar-wah-fuzz-phaser-od/distortions and have delay in the loop.
Assuming clean amp I'd do the same with delay at the end of the chain not in the loop.

Cheesyballs

Thankyou for everything. Gone with wah.fuzz.marshall.808.boost. black 13. Phaser and delay in loop.Thinking about a treble booster to brighten things up. Sounds bit to dark for me. Any suggestions? And should i put it in the effects loop and leave it on or would it be best in front of the amp

english_bob

Cheesyballs said:

Thankyou for everything. Gone with wah.fuzz.marshall.808.boost. black 13. Phaser and delay in loop.Thinking about a treble booster to brighten things up. Sounds bit to dark for me. Any suggestions? And should i put it in the effects loop and leave it on or would it be best in front of the amp

A treble booster isn't what you want. I know, it sounds like it should be- you want to boost the treble, so you buy a treble booster. In front of a distorted amplifier it'll alter the EQ, but more in the midrange. It won't necessarily do the general brightening job you want.

I'm assuming you've tried just turning the treble up on the amp?

If that didn't work, consider:

- Crap/damaged cables. Poor quality cables often reduce high end frequencies. No alternative but to get better ones.

- Lots of cables. Any cable that carries a high impedance signal suffers from capacitance- the longer the cable run, the more high end roll off you'll hear. A buffer in your signal chain will help.

- Crap bypass. Less of an issue than it used to be as designs with poor bypass have been altered or gone out of production, but some pedals sound bad in bypass. True bypass pedals don't generally have this problem (but they do nothing to prevent cable capacitance) so it's only the non-TB ones that might do this.


Dismantle your current signal chain and start building it up one pedal at a time. You may find that adding a particular pedal or cable has a significant effect, in which case it's either #1 or #3. Alternatively, each one might make things slightly worse, in which case it's #2.

Cheesyballs

Will try. Thankyou

tone1

I'd go all in front end and no loop. 

Wah 
Fuzz
Phase
808
boost
mods
delays

Cheesyballs

Thanks again for the help. Does everyone agree the phaser should go in front of my amp. Its so confusing and time taking

english_bob

Cheesyballs said:

Thanks again for the help. Does everyone agree the phaser should go in front of my amp. Its so confusing and time taking

Try it both ways and see which you think sounds better. It'll be more apparent with distortion. Personally I'd put it in front but I wouldn't say that was the *right* way to do it, just *a* way to do it. 

Cookiemonster

Boost at the end is good for solos. Just gives more volume. But if you use it with a drive early in chain it won't work the same. But can have some great sounds

Cheesyballs

Guys. Thanks so much for all the info. Finally happy. Gone with wah.fuzz.marshall dist.808. Phaser. Black 13. Spark boost.then delay in loop. Done a bit tweeking may still invest in an eq pedal. Again. Thanks for everyone's help

UnclePsychosis

My own personal preference is 

Chorus - Phaser - OD - Dist - Fuzz - Delay - Reverb - Trem 

All going into the front of the amp (I don't use amp distortion). 

Basically modulation before dirt, except for tremolo which comes after reverb like in the old Fender amps.