Boost pedals, attenuators and other things I don't understand....

kswilson89

Hi

In my search for the ultimate overdrive pedal I've come to the realisation that, while many overdrives sound very good, none of them really replicate the sound of tube amp break up that I'm looking for. So, my question is... would I be able to use a boost pedal to boost the signal to the front end of the amp and turn the volume up on the amplifier to achieve the overdriven sound I want... and then use an attenuator to manage the overall output volume of the amplifier? Or is this crazy talk?! Thanks

benmurray85

What's the amp?

kswilson89

Its a custom job, based off a Princeton... About 20 watts

ICBM

Yes.

Other points…

Different boosts and different attenuators will perform differently.

With attenuators, you need one rated for at least double the power of the amp really - although that won't usually be an issue with a 20W amp.

The attenuator needs to match the impedance of the amp, although some are more 'universal' than others.

It will shorten the life of the valves a bit but shouldn't (if the amp is well-built) do any other harm.

kswilson89

The Dr. Z Brake Lite seems like a good option. It makes me wonder why more people don't choose to go down this route... Is it due to the wear it puts on the amp/tubes?

Winny_Pooh

An example if the sound you are after?

ICBM

kswilson89 said:

The Dr. Z Brake Lite seems like a good option.

I know a lot of people think I have a thing about this , but I really don't get the hype or the love for it.

I've tried a couple. It's not actually bad-sounding, but it is very average. It also contains three components, is rated at best for 45W (and I wouldn't run a cranked 45W amp into it) the standard model doesn't even have a proper casing, and it's *over £200*. It has to be the most overpriced attenuator there is.

Seriously, £219 for this?

http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/dr-z-amplification-brake-lite-1015230.jpg

kswilson89 said:

It makes me wonder why more people don't choose to go down this route... Is it due to the wear it puts on the amp/tubes?

Possibly, plus there's a bit of extra complexity. It also may not sound as good as you expect - if you think it's going to give the exact same sound as a cranked amp but quieter, you're likely to be disappointed. You will get an overdriven amp sound - but because the speaker is being driven less hard and being damped more heavily, and not least because your ears don't respond in the same way at lower volume, it will not give the same listening experience.

To be perfectly honest, the right overdrive pedal can often sound as good.

kswilson89

ICBM said:

kswilson89 said:

The Dr. Z Brake Lite seems like a good option.

I know a lot of people think I have a thing about this , but I really don't get the hype or the love for it.

I've tried a couple. It's not actually bad-sounding, but it is very average. It also contains three components, is rated at best for 45W (and I wouldn't run a cranked 45W amp into it) the standard model doesn't even have a proper casing, and it's *over £200*. It has to be the most overpriced attenuator there is.

Seriously, £219 for this?

http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/dr-z-amplification-brake-lite-1015230.jpg

kswilson89 said:

It makes me wonder why more people don't choose to go down this route... Is it due to the wear it puts on the amp/tubes?

Possibly, plus there's a bit of extra complexity. It also may not sound as good as you expect - if you think it's going to give the exact same sound as a cranked amp but quieter, you're likely to be disappointed. You will get an overdriven amp sound - but because the speaker is being driven less hard and being damped more heavily, and not least because your ears don't respond in the same way at lower volume, it will not give the same listening experience.

To be perfectly honest, the right overdrive pedal can often sound as good.

Thanks for your reply, that's food for thought for sure!

Teetonetal

I have had very good results with the 2 notes torpedo, which is a reactive load. Works very nicely with my amps.

monquixote

The first thing to do is get your amp somewhere out of the way and crank the balls off it and see if that is the sound in your head.

Personally I'm not all that fond of a cranked Princeton, but that's just me.

Eski

kswilson89 said:

The Dr. Z Brake Lite seems like a good option. It makes me wonder why more people don't choose to go down this route... Is it due to the wear it puts on the amp/tubes?

I have a brake lite that I no longer use - PM me if you want to talk about buying it.  Used but in great condition.

Cheers

Sassafras

I'd simply get a Way Huge Pork Loin and be done with it.
It's got enough output to be used as a clean boost and the OD sounds very natural especially with Fender style amps.

MrMusic

You have the right idea, also a cheap way you can go is put an eq pedal or volume pedal through the amp effects loop, then you can tweak tone and lower the output volume, it's cool if you want to push you're pre amp to full dirty or break up at a low volume

MrMusic

MrMusic

Nice few videos  from Mr Wampler on this subject, has helped me out alot on my home set up. My annoying neighbour has finally stopped moaning thanks to watching these videos! Got some new and nice tones from my amp too! Bonus! 

Magnetic_Effects

Reactive loads work better than restive loads when it comes to attenuators. 

Having said that, I used a Hotplate for years with good results. 

ICBM

Magnetic_Effects said:

Reactive loads work better than restive loads when it comes to attenuators. 

That very much depends on the amp, in my experience. Some amps - particularly Vox-type no-NFB ones - seem to not like reactive loads and prefer straight resistive ones, although it does depend on exactly how reactive the load is... some which claim to be are in fact mostly resistive.

There can be an issue with the impedance curve as well - some are *very* different from a real speaker (including the Hotplate, when the Bright switch is engaged) which can sound bad with some amps or put a lot of strain on the valves (again including the Hotplate, with Marshall-type amps in particular). 

Magnetic_Effects

I never used the eq switches on the Hotplate as I didn't like them.

clarkefan

MrMusic said:

You have the right idea, also a cheap way you can go is put an eq pedal or volume pedal through the amp effects loop, then you can tweak tone and lower the output volume, it's cool if you want to push you're pre amp to full dirty or break up at a low volume

+1 simple and works, not sure why it's not more widely used.  I built a patch bay for my stuff and built a volume pot into it that works on the Return connection, allows me to drive the preamp, drop the level going into the power amp, then crank the power amp with the main amp volume, works well.