Electric cars - how 'green' are they?

Roland

We've mentioned and undermined lots of technologies. For example @chillidoggy ;said: "Last time I checked there were no charging stations hanging from skyhooks, so I guess it's a non-starter where planes are concerned." The current design is for short haul electrically powered aircraft where batteries fit into standard sized cargo containers, and are swapped for fully charged ones on landing. A lot can happen in 23 years. 1920 we didn't expect London to be bombed by supersonic guided missiles.

Cirrus said:

OK, to my mind electric cars aren't the industry re-defining thing - self driving cars are the shock that's going to totally change how we see car transport in the future.... I do think the social change will be the hard bit ....

Sporky said:

... there isn't a single answer. Renewables will work well once there's a good storage option. Electric cars work well for moderate distances, but need long refills between long hops. Hydrogen cars will only ever do relatively short hops between quick refills.

Petrol and diesel will phase out, at least as mass market propulsion.

  @Cirrus & @Sporky are right: the change is going to involve a combination of different technologies, and a change of attitude.

Gove is a much disliked politician, and I'd hate for his name to go down in history as a source of inspiration. However this time he has done something right this time (although it probably wasn't his idea). He has made a JFK style statement, setting a target which we should be working towards. 

Axe_meister

Well London may get an additional charge for any cars registered before 2006 in an extended Low emission zone from South to North Circular.
Now a 2006 car is not that old (My 2003 MG has only 60k miles), selling it and getting a newer car will a) Be expensive will actually cost more in CO2 emissions in the long run.

Chalky

Roland said:

We've mentioned and undermined lots of technologies. For example @chillidoggy ;said: "Last time I checked there were no charging stations hanging from skyhooks, so I guess it's a non-starter where planes are concerned." The current design is for short haul electrically powered aircraft where batteries fit into standard sized cargo containers, and are swapped for fully charged ones on landing. A lot can happen in 23 years. 1920 we didn't expect London to be bombed by supersonic guided missiles. 

Last time I studied aircraft design there were 3 main factors to consider: weight, weight and weight.  The very best batteries and efficient electric motors give an energy density maybe 6% of jet fuel?  Drivetrain weight reduction is not as significant as for cars, is it? And you are going to put those heavy batteries in the fuselage rather than in the wings, increasing the strength requirement on the wing root, and thereby the weight of the heaviest part of the empty plane.

The mention of the standard cargo containers immediately tells you that the story was not put out by a serious aerospace engineer.

ICBM

As far as I understand it this is one of the reasons the Chinese are spending a lot of money upgrading their rail links to Europe - currently their goods travel by ship (slow) or by air (expensive) - trains are faster than one and cheaper than the other. But more importantly, they can be powered by electricity, which is not practical for either.

chillidoggy

Roland said:

We've mentioned and undermined lots of technologies. For example @chillidoggy ;said: "Last time I checked there were no charging stations hanging from skyhooks, so I guess it's a non-starter where planes are concerned." The current design is for short haul electrically powered aircraft where batteries fit into standard sized cargo containers, and are swapped for fully charged ones on landing. A lot can happen in 23 years. 1920 we didn't expect London to be bombed by supersonic guided missiles.

Cirrus said:

OK, to my mind electric cars aren't the industry re-defining thing - self driving cars are the shock that's going to totally change how we see car transport in the future.... I do think the social change will be the hard bit ....

Sporky said:

... there isn't a single answer. Renewables will work well once there's a good storage option. Electric cars work well for moderate distances, but need long refills between long hops. Hydrogen cars will only ever do relatively short hops between quick refills.

Petrol and diesel will phase out, at least as mass market propulsion.

  @Cirrus & @Sporky are right: the change is going to involve a combination of different technologies, and a change of attitude.

Gove is a much disliked politician, and I'd hate for his name to go down in history as a source of inspiration. However this time he has done something right this time (although it probably wasn't his idea). He has made a JFK style statement, setting a target which we should be working towards. 

Ha, ha! Gotcha! Skyhooks don't exist!

crunchman

No right hand drive Tesla Model 3s until 2019.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/tesla-model-3-elon-musk-release-date-price-affordable-delivery-time-production-a7869491.html

NickBotfield

Russ Andrews is going to make a fucking fortune when everyone has an electric car.

Rocker

NickBotfield said:

Russ Andrews is going to make a fucking fortune when everyone has an electric car.

Get on the bandwagon before it starts to move: join his company

Evilmags

If anyone wants to see how much hype and bulls hit Elon Musk pumps out, look at electric vehicles sales. (Found on evobsession.com). Renault, BMW, VAG, Nissan ect all sell more elective vehicles than Tesla. 

Rocker

Where is all the electricity to come from, electricity to charge the electric car batteries? The Grid can barely handle the present demands as it is. ICE replaced steam due mainly to the ready availability of cheap oil.

holnrew

Evilmags said:

If anyone wants to see how much hype and bulls hit Elon Musk pumps out, look at electric vehicles sales. (Found on evobsession.com). Renault, BMW, VAG, Nissan ect all sell more elective vehicles than Tesla. 

There's a reason for that, price. The Tesla 3 will change things, it's the turning point IMO. But we might need to wait for them to open a factory in Europe before it has a big impact on the UK