shipping brazillian RW guitar in the EU

amarok1971

Would you trust shipping a Brazillian RW necked guitar in the EU? apparently its ok to do and doesn't need CITES but i'd be frightened to death....

cheers

guitars4you

Awkward one.
strictly speaking by the letter of the law you need a CITES certificate to sell any guitar that contains Brazil rosewood even for a UK to UK sale, but most ignore it as the radar is not picking up such sales. Be it dealer based, FB, Gumtree or EBay etc.

there is no customs barriers between EU nations so no additional checks in place. As such just as easy to sell UK to UK or UK to EU, or should I say just as risky

amarok1971

what if it gets confiscated and burned it the border log burner tho.....? 

guitars4you

Should have asked. What guitar is it?

amarok1971

the ME1 thats on sale here in Slovenia

Whitecat

guitars4you said:

Awkward one.
strictly speaking by the letter of the law you need a CITES certificate to sell any guitar that contains Brazil rosewood even for a UK to UK sale, but most ignore it as the radar is not picking up such sales. Be it dealer based, FB, Gumtree or EBay etc.

there is no customs barriers between EU nations so no additional checks in place. As such just as easy to sell UK to UK or UK to EU, or should I say just as risky

They're spot checking in some places, notably Germany. Not heard of problems in the UK, but there is a story on Facebook about an ME1 that got seized and destroyed by German customs very recently as there was no CITES passport for the Brazilian RW, and it was only coming from the UK.

amarok1971

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

Awkward one.
strictly speaking by the letter of the law you need a CITES certificate to sell any guitar that contains Brazil rosewood even for a UK to UK sale, but most ignore it as the radar is not picking up such sales. Be it dealer based, FB, Gumtree or EBay etc.

there is no customs barriers between EU nations so no additional checks in place. As such just as easy to sell UK to UK or UK to EU, or should I say just as risky

They're spot checking in some places, notably Germany. Not heard of problems in the UK, but there is a story on Facebook about an ME1 that got seized and destroyed by German customs very recently as there was no CITES passport for the Brazilian RW, and it was only coming from the UK.

yes i heard about that too, its all makes me very uneasy.   

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

Awkward one.
strictly speaking by the letter of the law you need a CITES certificate to sell any guitar that contains Brazil rosewood even for a UK to UK sale, but most ignore it as the radar is not picking up such sales. Be it dealer based, FB, Gumtree or EBay etc.

there is no customs barriers between EU nations so no additional checks in place. As such just as easy to sell UK to UK or UK to EU, or should I say just as risky

They're spot checking in some places, notably Germany. Not heard of problems in the UK, but there is a story on Facebook about an ME1 that got seized and destroyed by German customs very recently as there was no CITES passport for the Brazilian RW, and it was only coming from the UK.

I heard the same story. And I know for a 100% fact that you won't get a CITES certificate for it either. Long story, but essentially many such guitars were shipped into the EU and UK when whilst the law was actually in place, authorities did not really question it. Yet as shipped this way, USA companies have no appropriate export info for you today to acquire a retrospective CITES certificate. As such all sales as I mentioned above are carried out under the radar.

i heard German authorities just carried out a few eBay checks to see what was been sold as such and responded accordingly. There is no checking at the point of customs as goods move through the EU. Other Geman instances relate to guitars listed for sale in Germany

am I catious and concerned about stock I have that is similar? Yes. But the only other option is to stay clear. Yet we are all doing it

Whitecat

guitars4you said:

There is no checking at the point of customs as goods move through the EU. 

Well, there's not meant to be, but there still is - again, mainly spot-checking for contraband etc. My wife ordered some stuff from Poland last Christmas (via eBay) and it never arrived, she opened an eBay claim, seller issued refund. Two months later parcel arrives with OPENED BY HMRC tape/stickers all over it. Had been re-sealed and released. Wife had to contact eBay seller to offer to pay again as they were out the money, they had considered it "lost." So they are checking, occasionally! There's just no taxation happening... it's all looking for illegal stuff, when it happens.

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

There is no checking at the point of customs as goods move through the EU. 

Well, there's not meant to be, but there still is - again, mainly spot-checking for contraband etc. My wife ordered some stuff from Poland last Christmas (via eBay) and it never arrived, she opened an eBay claim, seller issued refund. Two months later parcel arrives with OPENED BY HMRC tape/stickers all over it. Had been re-sealed and released. Wife had to contact eBay seller to offer to pay again as they were out the money, they had considered it "lost." So they are checking, occasionally! There's just no taxation happening... it's all looking for illegal stuff, when it happens.

Point taken, but surely a needle in a haystack. Which is fine until it is you that is caught 

amarok1971

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

There is no checking at the point of customs as goods move through the EU. 

Well, there's not meant to be, but there still is - again, mainly spot-checking for contraband etc. My wife ordered some stuff from Poland last Christmas (via eBay) and it never arrived, she opened an eBay claim, seller issued refund. Two months later parcel arrives with OPENED BY HMRC tape/stickers all over it. Had been re-sealed and released. Wife had to contact eBay seller to offer to pay again as they were out the money, they had considered it "lost." So they are checking, occasionally! There's just no taxation happening... it's all looking for illegal stuff, when it happens.

Point taken, but surely a needle in a haystack. Which is fine until it is you that is caught 

And thats what worries me, i would fall into a barrel of nipples and come out sucking my thumb 

Sassafras

I managed to smuggle a rosewood guitar hidden inside a huge consignment of heroin.

danishbacon

Given the cost of postage and value of the instrument isn't it worth a quick Ryanair flight?

guitars4you

danishbacon said:

Given the cost of postage and value of the instrument isn't it worth a quick Ryanair flight?

Thought occurred to me as well

paul_c2

You're joking - one of the easiest ways to end up with two half-guitars is to put it on a plane and expect it to survive - have you seen what baggage handlers do?

paul_c2

Oh forgot to add - this CITES thing - I recently bought a bass with a rosewood fingerboard from Japan. Some Japanese sellers specifically mentioned they'd need to apply for a certificate, and it could add 2-4 weeks etc etc while others never mentioned anything. I took the chance and it sailed through with no seizure through customs. I guess if something did get caught, you could get a refund and leave it to the seller to take the loss, if you paid by credit card with tracking on the delivery.

guitars4you

paul_c2 said:

You're joking - one of the easiest ways to end up with two half-guitars is to put it on a plane and expect it to survive - have you seen what baggage handlers do?

Heavy case for a Modern Eagle. I'd put the case in the hold and take the guitar on board in a good gig bag