The complex world of resale values

Three-ColourSunburst

I often see it stated that Gibsons and Fenders are the only guitars with a decent resale value. However, just what that value might be seems to be hard to establish, given the large impact condition and model variation makes, the often speculative advertised prices one sees and so on. So, if we take something like a new Les Paul Standard retailing at £2000 as our benchmark, what sort of 'real world' private resale value is typical after a few years for such a guitar, assuming it had a popular finish and was in good condition?

How about something like the guitar below, the Ibanez AR 2619 Prestige, which is comparable to a LP in many ways, and can be expected to be very well put together. (I see that even 20-odd year old versions of this guitar are advertised at pretty high prices.)

http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_detail17.php?year=2017&area_id=3&cat_id=1&series_id=8&data_id=259&color=CL01

How about other quality instruments such as those by PRS and Framus?

Is it true that PRS prices resale tend to be surprisingly low, with many buyers being reluctant to part with their cash for such minor issues as the original tags not been with the guitar or minor wear marks?

How about small luthier and custom guitars? Is it true that the resale values of such instruments is often abysmal?

Any input on the world of resale values welcomed, whatever the brand, especially those based on personal experience.

(I must admit that I am rather attracted by that Artist, and wouldn't be too bothered if its resale vale was several hundred less than a used LP that retailed for a similar price, but the higher the gap the more I would think twice. I don't mind a bit of irrationality when buying a guitar, but wouldn't like to do anything that was bordering on insanity!)

siraxeman

You only need to look at ebay to know resale prices  are  out of whack!!  What shocks me most is not the many things that are a hard sell at low prices ie the seller taking a hit, but the jokers on there that sell or try to for silly inflated prices. Ibanez sell low used despite being great guitars (well at least the jap models are) yet you get one seller on there who only seems to flog used old ibanez's for mega money compared to what other folk seem to ask. Seems if your prepared to hold out and cont mind it taking a while you'll get good money sometimes.....he evidently does. 

Three-ColourSunburst

siraxeman said:

You only need to look at ebay to know resale prices  are  out of whack!!  What shocks me most is not the many things that are a hard sell at low prices ie the seller taking a hit, but the jokers on there that sell or try to for silly inflated prices.

I know, that's why I was trying to get an idea of what sort of real-world values most sellers get. For example, would our hypothetical £2000 LP Standard be worth £1500, £1200 or £1000 a couple of years down the road? How about the MIJ Ibanez Artist, which has about the same list price? Would this be worth. £1000? More? Less?

How about brands like Framus? I really have no idea about how much guitars like these retain their value.

JDE

Used Les Paul Standards are normally in the region of 900-1300, all things considered. Used Artists from the 70's and 80's are about the same. I've *never* seen a more modern Japanese Artist go for anywhere near a grand, used. They're normally 600-800. Which is a bargain for a great guitar. 
I have spent a lot of time buying and selling guitar gear as a non-professional seller and in my humble opinion, the thing which really affects Gibson resale value is a neck break. The thing which really affects Fender resale value is "modding" of some description, including home-done relic'ing.
Modern Japanese Ibby resale is dirt for all models apart from J Customs, which are often listed high, but don't really sell. I think the reason for the low general resale value of modern Prestige's is that the 70-80's models are overpriced and the current Premium line are overpriced, too. When you've got a Indonesian made Premium model consistently selling for more than a Prestige, something is wrong, and this is what has happened, especially since the current Premiums are a real step up from most Indo made guitars. 
I have no idea why PRS buyers are so picky about hang tags and stuff, presumably because of fakes? PRS ain't my bag.

The largest factor in selling a used guitar is the ability and willingness to post it. Again, just my 2p!

JDE

Also, regarding Framus and Levin and brands like that, they're nearly always bought by collectors. I know someone who collects Levin archtops exclusively, and he basically says there's a circuit of collectors who essentially just buy/sell/swap between themselves. Which is a little like what National and Resonator collectors do, too

richardhomer

Anyone said 'Brexit' yet?

Three-ColourSunburst

JDE said:

Used Les Paul Standards are normally in the region of 900-1300, all things considered. Used Artists from the 70's and 80's are about the same. I've *never* seen a more modern Japanese Artist go for anywhere near a grand, used. They're normally 600-800.

£600-800? Wow. I must keep looking as I have never seen one of the reissues for sale anywhere. I did have one of the originals for a short period back in the early 80's, but poverty caused me to sell it before I ever got beyond the absolute beginner stage. Now late-life crisis and a desire to do the things I wanted to do when young but didn't has led me back to trying to learn to play the guitar again.

 I sold my old Artist for £120. Not too painful really, given that I also had a Park 75 head and matching 4x4 cab in great condition that I sold at the same time for £100. I never really used this as it had no gain control and to get that 'rock' sound it had to be wound up enough to risk death, plus eviction from the family home. I did used to play my tape deck through it though!

JDE

Haha, the terrors of the early rigs! 
Modern Prestige Artists are rare birds on the secondhand market. They're relatively rare on the firsthand market to be fair. The Ibby forums used to be a good source, but now with CITES and the assorted pitfalls of dealing with shitmunchers you don't know (as opposed to here, where most people are nicer than a cuppa on a cold morning)..... 
Fwiw, the Artist is far more popular in Europe than most other places - eBay France and Belgium often have good examples, and you see some nice older models shipping from Japan, but then you have to deal with CITES and Import Duty. 

Chalky

Secondhand values have generally held up ok, mainly because new prices have been hiked up by the currency shift*.  But anything away from mainstream always loses a LOT on resale from new.  Buying a new guitar today makes much less sense than it used to 5-10 years ago.  A Les Paul Standard for £1200, a US Strat for £600, etc. Unless you want a very specific colour or model, why pay more? 

*An exception is secondhand guitars over £2000 - they are rather slower on the secondhand market than 5-10 years ago.