ES335s

misterpete

I am bewildered by the different choices available if you are in the market for a Gibson ES335 and was wondering why there is so much variation in price. Satin tops, flame tops, Memphis, Nashville etc what should a prospective 335 buyer be looking for and what sort of models would be under the 2k budget? Apologies if this has been asked before

Lebarque

Japanese-made Tokai. They're brilliant. I believe @pottolom is selling one for the bargain price of £750. If I didn't already have one, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.

sweepy

You can pick up Custom Shop 335's s/h for £1500 quite easily these days just don't settle for anything less than a Gibson, you WILL regret it

Lodious

I'd certainly try the neck profiles out for the reissues. The 63's have a very pronounced taper in thickness from the nut to the heel and the 59's can be pretty big all over.

Personally, I think flame looks totally wrong on a 335, but each to their own.

As always, best to try a few, along with Yamaha SA2200 and Tokai's.

Teyeplayer

Try every 335 you can, keep an open mind and be particularly honest with yourself about why you want one, is it the the 335 shape/look what you want or a particular sound? I tried dozens after using a friends original '64 on a record and needing that sound for live work, I found just 2 guitars that did the sound (though sadly not the neck) one was a custom shop job and the other was a Taylor t3b (which surprised me). In between were many very generic, very average 335s that were sadly just ok.

pottolom

Lebarque said:

Japanese-made Tokai. They're brilliant. I believe @pottolom is selling one for the bargain price of £750. If I didn't already have one, is small it up in a heartbeat.

Sorry, I sold it within about a day!

sweepy said:

You can pick up Custom Shop 335's s/h for £1500 quite easily these days just don't settle for anything less than a Gibson, you WILL regret it

Not sure I agree with this.

I've settled for Squiers in the past rather than Fenders and regretted it, ditto Epiphones rather than Gibsons. But that's because these felt like a compromise in terms of materials used, pickups, finish, etc. 

You can buy 335 copies that easily compete with Gibsons in terms of all of the above, and for a lot less money on the used market. The Japanese (not Chinese or Korean) Tokai ES guitars are a particular favourite of mine. They're actually more 50s accurate than most of the non-Custom Shop Gibsons (long pickguard, 59 neck profile, etc) and a 2000s/2010s model can be picked up used for around £700-800. No regrets from me on not having a Gibson, the quality is easily on-par (some say better), and I see no reason to spend double the money.

menamestom

I was really underwhelmed with the Tokai I had, an ES130 I think.  I though it was a bit bland and lacked any mojo (sorry to mention that immeasurable quality).  It was nicely made and finished, but the pickups we average at best and played just like a previous Samick I had.  I've not owned a Gibson 335 (currently have a Midtown), but the nice ones I have played have a nice woody honk the Tokai didn't.   I'd go Gibson or a used Heritage.  Eastman may be worth trying also. 

impmann

Not all 335s are created equal - that is for sure. I'd echo the advice to try before you buy.

mart

pottolom said:

sweepy said:

You can pick up Custom Shop 335's s/h for £1500 quite easily these days just don't settle for anything less than a Gibson, you WILL regret it

Not sure I agree with this.

.... No regrets from me on not having a Gibson, the quality is easily on-par (some say better), and I see no reason to spend double the money.

@sweepy was very careful in saying don't buy anything LESS than a Gibson. He didn't say don't buy anything OTHER than a Gibson.

misterpete

I appreciate all the comments and advice guys but what I really wanted to know is what is it that separates a £1500 335 from a £2300 model when to me that seem almost identical. Is it the wood, the finish? The hardware looks the same, is the year of manufacture really important if it was made in the last 10 years?

sweepy

I stand by the original statement, Jap Tokai's and guitars of their ilk, including Yamaha SA's are not a patch on a good 335, sure they are more consistent but they sound nothing like a Gibson, before a lot of ppl jump on me for saying it, I've had Jap 335's Yamaha SA2200 and a Gibson 335 and also worked on more of them than I care to remember. The Moral is, want a Gibson 335, buy a Gibson 335, but try a lot of them out first

markj

markj

Here is mine I bought it secondhand earlier this year for £1560. Its a 2013 model. Its in mint condition and its had the Classic 57 pups taken out and replaced with a set of Oilcity masterwound Pafs. Its also been fitted with a Faber bridge with locking studs.

pottolom

How can a Japanese Tokai 335 sound so different to a Gibson, though?

Accepted, pickups are likely different (but are easily changed out).

Otherwise, the Tokais are constructed in exactly the same way, as far as I can tell. Even the centre block is made from the same materials. I just don't see how there can be much of a difference. 

markj

markj said:

Here is mine I bought it secondhand earlier this year for £1560. Its a 2013 model. Its in mint condition and its had the Classic 57 pups taken out and replaced with a set of Oilcity masterwound Pafs. Its also been fitted with a Faber bridge with locking studs.

I tried a new  Yamaha before buying this, It was okay.

AlexO

I've had a few and found the 63RI my personal favourite. It's a skinny neck and great for those with smaller hands. 
I also think 335s looks better with a plain or faded top. 

iseverynamegone

sweepy said:

I stand by the original statement, Jap Tokai's and guitars of their ilk, including Yamaha SA's are not a patch on a good 335, sure they are more consistent but they sound nothing like a Gibson, before a lot of ppl jump on me for saying it, I've had Jap 335's Yamaha SA2200 and a Gibson 335 and also worked on more of them than I care to remember. The Moral is, want a Gibson 335, buy a Gibson 335, but try a lot of them out first

I've had a 1995 Nashville 335, 2015 335 63 Anniversary , 2015 58 reissue 345, 1978 355. 

They were all great guitars in their own ways but are all long gone , I still have my 81 Tokai es100.

I guess I must have had a lots of lemons from Gibson and one absolute belter from Tokai. 

To the OP there is no great consistent quality difference in all the recent models - just shape, neck carve and pups- unless you like to sniff corks or the neck glue.  

Try before you buy , and find a good deal on a used one. 

menamestom

pottolom said:

How can a Japanese Tokai 335 sound so different to a Gibson, though?

Accepted, pickups are likely different (but are easily changed out).

Otherwise, the Tokais are constructed in exactly the same way, as far as I can tell. Even the centre block is made from the same materials. I just don't see how there can be much of a difference. 

Depends on the exact model.  The ES130 I had was very nice.  The pickups could easily be changed out (Although on a £1100 guitar I'd rather better ones be included), the finish was poly, which I have no major issue with and the nut was quite thin, so I never bonded with it.  But it was a nice guitar, and the difference wasn't massive.  Having said that, the difference wasn't massive to a decent Epi either, in fact one of the best 335 types I have played was a 90's Sheraton.   Just depends what you are looking for I suppose.

pottolom

Personally, I find the Tokai PAF MKI and MKII sound perfectly articulate, ballsy and PAF-like. I don't find them inferior to anything I've heard from a Gibson reissue.

The Gibsons I've played (admittedly I haven't tried a custom-shop level one) have all had really slim necks, and I think a fatter neck feels (and maybe sounds?) better. The Tokais have that.

Anyway, it's an interesting one. I do think a lot of the difference between Gibson and the high-end MIJ copies is perceived, and is largely down to brand-loyalty. Which is fair enough I suppose.

They're so similar construction and material-wise, I think it has to come down to whether you're willing to pay more for the name on the headstock.

If I was buying new, though, I'd be more hesitant. Depreciation is certainly much lower on a Gibson. But in the second-hand market, that's a disadvantage to the Gibson.

Teyeplayer

misterpete said:

I appreciate all the comments and advice guys but what I really wanted to know is what is it that separates a £1500 335 from a £2300 model when to me that seem almost identical. 

If we are entirely honest, the answer is usually how desperate the current owner is for cash or to satisfy their own gas.

Prime example -there is a lovely looking example on here currently, its available for 1450 because the seller needs to sell. For that price if you have the spare funds available today, you could snap it up, afford to mess around with pickups and sell it on if it isn't right. All without making a loss.

Evilmags

Try a Collins i35.