WTF!

Emp_Fab

OK, how about a bit of fun.  A contest as to who can find the most outrageous markup on a Russ Andrews product...  The rules are simple - you find a product that is clearly no better than its budget mainstream equivalent (say a lead or something) then find the cheapest price you can get that for and the equivalent bullshit item on RA's site.

I'll start ! - 3.0M USB A to B cable...  eBay £1.34 delivered. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-USB-2-0-A-to-B-Printer-Cable-HP-Epson-Lexmark-Canon-/350422896836?epid=1488222445&hash=item5196d510c4:m:mdp8aWKeo4VMKwE16P-vJRA)

Russ Andrew's 3.0m USB cable - £2695.00 (http://www.russandrews.com/ks2416-ag-usb-cable/)

Markup: 201,019 % !!!

(https://www.omnicalculator.com/business/markup)

CabbageCat

Rocker said:

chillidoggy said:

You'd be better off spending the same amount on upgrading your CD player, amp, or speakers.

True if your hi-fi system cost less than £2K, there is no point in spending serious money on cables. The consensus is spend around £200 on cables for such a system. They will make a positive difference. However if your system cost £20K or more, cables like the much derided RA cables will make a huge difference, one that will literally be jaw dropping. The only RA cable in my system is from the mains block to the wall socket. I use it because it is the right length, almost everything else is pure silver wires. They cost a lot less than RA stuff, a lot less than a Squire PJ bass I looked at recently, but they work exceptionally well and their use is a no brainer. I may in time replace the RA cable with a silver one but there is no great urgency in that as the music sounds so good as it is.

Do you believe that self-delusion over what human senses perceive is a legitimate, scientific possibility for anyone? I'm not specifically saying that this is happening with your Russ Andrews stuff, but do you think it can happen for people?

Chalky

@Rocker - disparages a chap who jiggles his leg in a restaurant, believes Russ Andrews, and is literally 'holier than thou'.  Says a lot....

Teetonetal

All I know is there is alot of money to be made when you can sell someone something that shows a difference in hearing something others cannot. 

Teetonetal

jonnyburgo said:

File next to Klon and Dumble

And the quickly read @4114Effects thread in fx and have a quick chuckle.

chillidoggy

Rocker said:

chillidoggy said:

You'd be better off spending the same amount on upgrading your CD player, amp, or speakers.

True if your hi-fi system cost less than £2K, there is no point in spending serious money on cables. The consensus is spend around £200 on cables for such a system. They will make a positive difference. However if your system cost £20K or more, cables like the much derided RA cables will make a huge difference, one that will literally be jaw dropping. The only RA cable in my system is from the mains block to the wall socket. I use it because it is the right length, almost everything else is pure silver wires. They cost a lot less than RA stuff, a lot less than a Squire PJ bass I looked at recently, but they work exceptionally well and their use is a no brainer. I may in time replace the RA cable with a silver one but there is no great urgency in that as the music sounds so good as it is.

My last words on it - I've been a hi-fi fan for 40 years, my current system did indeed cost £20K and I think Russ Andrews is a massive fraud who makes shitloads of money out of the cork-sniffers in the hi-fi world who have more money than sense.

Sporky

I like the cult-ish approach of the audiotards - they can't propose any mechanism consistent with the laws of physics that explains how a mains cable could change the output of any well-designed audio device, so they go with persecution complex or insults (if you can't afford it, if your hearing isn't good enough, blah blah blah).

Also Machina Dynamica, a site that proves it is impossible to differentiate top-notch parody from real audiophile rip-off sites...

http://www.machinadynamica.com/

Bucket

jonnyburgo said:

File next to Klon and Dumble

Ah, but I've played a couple of Klons and they do actually make a tangible difference to the sound. I have never played or even seen a Dumble, but I have no doubt that would make a tangible difference to my sound as well. Same with Blackmachine - there is folklore surrounding them, and sometimes that leads to doubt as to whether they make a difference for the extra money compared to other products, but when you get in the room with one you tend to understand where the hype comes from.

A Russ Andrews power cable which he probably buys in bulk from Maplin and then sells for £3k to fucking idiots? Not so much.

Sporky

Bucket said:

A Russ Andrews power cable which he probably buys in bulk from Maplin and then sells for £3k to fucking idiots? Not so much.

When I built mine I had a look at some of the fancy mains connectors - they aren't cheap to buy, even in bulk. I also think a fair bit of work does go into making these, with the braiding and the block of wood stuck to the middle.

I'm not saying it's worth it, mind, but with a sensible mark-up from construction costs I think one of these would be about £100-150 depending on where it's assembled.

4114Effects

Bucket said:

jonnyburgo said:

File next to Klon and Dumble

Ah, but I've played a couple of Klons and they do actually make a tangible difference to the sound. I have never played or even seen a Dumble, but I have no doubt that would make a tangible difference to my sound as well. Same with Blackmachine - there is folklore surrounding them, and sometimes that leads to doubt as to whether they make a difference for the extra money compared to other products, but when you get in the room with one you tend to understand where the hype comes from.

A Russ Andrews power cable which he probably buys in bulk from Maplin and then sells for £3k to fucking idiots? Not so much.

Nah. Maplin are expensive. He won't even be paying those prices for his cable ... 

boogieman

I don't doubt Mr Andrews uses decent and probably expensive parts to make up his cables (they have to at least look the part after all) but there's a huge mark up on the manufacturing cost. I doubt they make any difference except to audiotards who want to hear the difference. 

ICBM

They certainly use expensive parts and probably fairly labour-intensive assembly methods, but the point is that they're irrelevant.

It's like having a table knife made by hand from aircraft-grade titanium or something - it would cost a lot to make, and could legitimately be priced to reflect that, but it wouldn't actually make your dinner taste any better than a cheap stainless steel one.

And even given the materials and the assembly, I suspect they're drastically overpriced.

Sporky

I do not disagree with any of that.

I would, though, like to see the percentage margin on a £3 IEC lead for comparison.

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

CabbageCat said:

If you learned (through scientific tests or admission of bullshittery from RA) unequivocally that the sound improvement you are hearing is placebo-style self-delusion at the "ear end" of the listening process and not an actual change to the sound you are hearing would you still consider it to be money well spent? After all, you are perceiving the music differently, even though it is the same sound.

And the thing about placebos is they're meant to be much cheaper than the "active" alternative.

£1500 for a placebo seems silly when I made a fancy-looking mains cable for about a tenner. Add a blob in the middle - about an hour with the lathe - and you're there.

http://www.monkeyfx.co.uk/pictures/FancyMainsCable.JPG

Rayon covered cable for,  erm, something, transparent 3-pin plug for, erm, transparency, and white (aka hospital grade) IEC end for cleanliness.

Not gonna lie, I'd have that cable. Would look ace coming from a vox.  

Nitefly

@ThePrettyDamned he'll probably let you have it for £1500...

crunchman

Emp_Fab said:

OK, how about a bit of fun.  A contest as to who can find the most outrageous markup on a Russ Andrews product...  The rules are simple - you find a product that is clearly no better than its budget mainstream equivalent (say a lead or something) then find the cheapest price you can get that for and the equivalent bullshit item on RA's site.

I'll start ! - 3.0M USB A to B cable...  eBay £1.34 delivered. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-USB-2-0-A-to-B-Printer-Cable-HP-Epson-Lexmark-Canon-/350422896836?epid=1488222445&hash=item5196d510c4:m:mdp8aWKeo4VMKwE16P-vJRA)

Russ Andrew's 3.0m USB cable - £2695.00 (http://www.russandrews.com/ks2416-ag-usb-cable/)

Markup: 201,019 % !!!

(https://www.omnicalculator.com/business/markup)

To be fair, you probably want to pick a decent USB cable for the comparison.

My daughters keep destroying charging cables for out Samsung tablet.  If I buy a decent one (£10 rather than £3) it will last a year or 18 months rather than 6 months.  They would probably destroy those £1.34 ones in a matter of weeks.

Sporky

ThePrettyDamned said:

Not gonna lie, I'd have that cable. Would look ace coming from a vox.  

Wide range of different braids available...

Nitefly said:

@ThePrettyDamned he'll probably let you have it for £1500...

I'd let you have it for a lot less than that. Even £150 seems excessive (though I wouldn't turn it down).

Plug - £2.99

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAINS-POWER-UK-3-PIN-FUSED-PLUG-3A-5A-10A-13A-BLACK-WHITE-TRANSPARENT-REWIREABLE-/361264912553?var=&hash=item541d1118a9

Socket - £2.76

http://cpc.farnell.com/bulgin/px0587-wh/rewireable-free-socket-str-white/dp/CN10163

Cable - about £2-3 per metre:

https://www.creative-cables.co.uk/2262-lighting-cables