3PDT Footswitches

Adam_MD

jpfamps said:

Using keyboard switches a la BOSS is better than most momentary switches as they have been optimized for low mechanical bounce.

The momentary switches used by Line 6 are also low bounce too (although not as reliable).

In my experience the standard BOSS flip flop requires a bit of component value jiggling when using other style of switches.

I can draw up a schematic for the BOSS flip-flop with optical switching if anyone is interested.

If you could draw it up I'll give it a go in some of my upcoming builds @jpfamps   It'd be cool to try something a bit different.  

jpfamps

Adam_MD said:

jpfamps said:

Using keyboard switches a la BOSS is better than most momentary switches as they have been optimized for low mechanical bounce.

The momentary switches used by Line 6 are also low bounce too (although not as reliable).

In my experience the standard BOSS flip flop requires a bit of component value jiggling when using other style of switches.

I can draw up a schematic for the BOSS flip-flop with optical switching if anyone is interested.

If you could draw it up I'll give it a go in some of my upcoming builds @jpfamps   It'd be cool to try something a bit different.  

I'll try to get something done in the next couple of days then!

Adam_MD

Take your time I've just poured some envirotex on 6 enclosures and they'll cure for about a week before I do anything else to them.  

impmann

jpfamps said:

Using keyboard switches a la BOSS is better than most momentary switches as they have been optimized for low mechanical bounce.

The momentary switches used by Line 6 are also low bounce too (although not as reliable).

In my experience the standard BOSS flip flop requires a bit of component value jiggling when using other style of switches.

I can draw up a schematic for the BOSS flip-flop with optical switching if anyone is interested.

Without going into depth and going against the NDA I signed...

The tac switches used in Line6 gear do have a degree of bounce but this is controlled in the DSP by software. Certain products were reworked prior to sale with revised code to improve the switch response by changing the bounce ratio. This made the switches fractionally slower to operate (barely perceptible) but a lot more reliable in operation.

jpfamps

impmann said:

jpfamps said:

Using keyboard switches a la BOSS is better than most momentary switches as they have been optimized for low mechanical bounce.

The momentary switches used by Line 6 are also low bounce too (although not as reliable).

In my experience the standard BOSS flip flop requires a bit of component value jiggling when using other style of switches.

I can draw up a schematic for the BOSS flip-flop with optical switching if anyone is interested.

Without going into depth and going against the NDA I signed...

The tac switches used in Line6 gear do have a degree of bounce but this is controlled in the DSP by software. Certain products were reworked prior to sale with revised code to improve the switch response by changing the bounce ratio. This made the switches fractionally slower to operate (barely perceptible) but a lot more reliable in operation.

I see a lot of PIC chips doing the switching in pedals these days, so I assume the debouncing is mainly software based.

Adam_MD

jpfamps said:

Using keyboard switches a la BOSS is better than most momentary switches as they have been optimized for low mechanical bounce.

The momentary switches used by Line 6 are also low bounce too (although not as reliable).

In my experience the standard BOSS flip flop requires a bit of component value jiggling when using other style of switches.

I can draw up a schematic for the BOSS flip-flop with optical switching if anyone is interested.

Frank @jpfamps has taken the time to draw up a schematic for this and a BOM.  I said I’d put it up on the forum to see if anyone else was interested in having a look.  I’m going to have a go to see what it’s like but it would definitely need smd to make it viable for use in a 1590b.  Using 3 optos would also make it much more expensive than the switching I use now which only uses 1.   @ICBM  @m_c  @impmann ;




Component list 1 = OpFET (H11F1M) 2 = OpFET (H11F1M) 3 = OpFET (H11F1M)   C1 = 4n7 C2 = 100p C3 = 220p C4 = 220p C5 = 100p C6 = 10n C7 = 4n7   D1 = 1N4148 D2 = 1N4148   J = 1/4" mono J = 1/4" mono   LED1 =    R1 = 390 R2 = 2M2 R5 = 1M R6 = 56k R7 = 100k R8 = 56k R9 = 56k R10 = 100k R11 = 56k R12 = 2M2 R13 = 1.2M R14 = 1M R15 = 100 R16 = 470 R17 = 4k7   S1 =    T1 =  T2 =  T3 =  T4 = 

lukedlb

May I ask: which solution has the least possible impact on tone loss, effect alteration, compatibility issues?
i am considering returning to a simpler setup on my pedalboard having eliminated my G2. I thought a simple 3dpt 4 loop looper would do the trick of omitting difficult or non true bypass pedals. I had considered the Gigrig  qmx4 but worried that the relays may effect my vintage fuzz. 
Any advice, please?

jpfamps

lukedlb said:

May I ask: which solution has the least possible impact on tone loss, effect alteration, compatibility issues?
i am considering returning to a simpler setup on my pedalboard having eliminated my G2. I thought a simple 3dpt 4 loop looper would do the trick of omitting difficult or non true bypass pedals. I had considered the Gigrig  qmx4 but worried that the relays may effect my vintage fuzz. 
Any advice, please?

Relays are voltage-controlled mechanical switches so would not affect the tone of vintage fuzzes.

m_c

That's an interesting schematic, especially how they rely on the capacitors to flip the flip flop.
It would also explain how the switch status is occasionally remembered when you remove power, as it'll only take a slight parasitic charge on a couple of the capacitors to decide power on state. (C1, C2, C5, and C7 don't have anything to drain them to ground, unless you ground out VCC).

However, I would of thought there would be something in the circuit to bias it so it powers up in bypass mode. Unless I'm missing something, what side of the flip flop powers up first, is purely down to luck, unless you mis-match some of the transistors.

It's certainly fuelled an idea I have rolling around in my head at the moment.

jpfamps

m_c said:

That's an interesting schematic, especially how they rely on the capacitors to flip the flip flop.
It would also explain how the switch status is occasionally remembered when you remove power, as it'll only take a slight parasitic charge on a couple of the capacitors to decide power on state. (C1, C2, C5, and C7 don't have anything to drain them to ground, unless you ground out VCC).

However, I would of thought there would be something in the circuit to bias it so it powers up in bypass mode. Unless I'm missing something, what side of the flip flop powers up first, is purely down to luck, unless you mis-match some of the transistors.

It's certainly fuelled an idea I have rolling around in my head at the moment.

The power on status will depend on the loading on the collectors of the flip flop transistors.

In my experience with the BOSS flip flop the loading means that the flip flop powers up in only one state rather than randomly, however the loading may need tweaking to ensure that this is the case as it (should) be equally loaded on each side, eg C2 and C3 can be varied.

This was in notes I sent with the schematic.