Has anyone owned a DC30 and an AC30?

ToneControl

I've owned 2 AC15s (one with EF86) and an AC10 twin (with EF86)
I got a DC30 clone, then a real DC30

But I've never had an AC30

has anyone owned both, are they so close there'd be no point owning both?
(e.g. I sold the EF86 handwired AC15 because it sounded like a smaller version of the DC30)

Moe_Zambeek

I have. I don't think they are *that* similar but you can tell they are blood relations. The DC30 is tighter, brighter / more steely and obviously has the master volume and two channels so I'd more versatile. I found the DC30 to have a faster attack too. However, you dont get that thing that Alnico blues do, that no other speaker really replicates.

Dodge

I have.

I'm not sure I'd choose to own both at the same time, they cover a lot of similar ground.

The DC30 sounds like a stiffer, harder version of an AC30 - similar sounding, but it's different.  Part of the AC30's charm is that it sounds like it's working really hard to give up the tone.  Matchless is more effortless, more muscular.  Both amps sound incredible.  As posted above, the alnico blues are a big part of the AC30 tone but Matchless also have the mismatched speaker load, the mismatched speaker types and the massive filtering - all of which push the amp tone away from 'classic' AC30.

I went around the houses when looking for the top-boost tone, I started with AC30's, lusted after and eventually bought a DC30 thinking it was a 'better' Vox, decided it was too loud and heavy and ended up with a smaller Lightning 15 after a long love affair with Cornell amps, played an AC30 again and bought one (Korg UK reissue) and I've ended up with a couple of 60's AC30's.  Full circle, lots of money spent getting back to where I started!

FWIW - I don't like EF86's in AC30's or DC30's.

Cabicular

My input is somewhat diminished by the fact that I have Moes old one
I will echo that it doesn’t really sound like an AC30
it has its own thing

DJH83004

For what it's worth, I still look after a lot of early British amps for various customers and it is getting increasingly difficult to to get hold of EF86s that aren't microphonic these days, whether they be NOS, secondhand or new manufacture.

ToneControl

DJH83004 said:

For what it's worth, I still look after a lot of early British amps for various customers and it is getting increasingly difficult to to get hold of EF86s that aren't microphonic these days, whether they be NOS, secondhand or new manufacture.

Yes, I usually buy a batch of used ones from ebay, and just use the best. Brand new ones are often useless

Wazmeister

Matchless offer a unique feel and sound, imho...

Ive played a C30 at World Guitars a few times, and the clean channel alone (even at the less desirable lower volumes) sounded epic. 

I miss my old Lightning too; would buy a head in a flash !

ecc83

A small defence of the EF86? The valve is in the first place not really suited as a high gain front end for a guitar amp. Pentodes are inherently noisier than triodes (the 86 actually makes a pretty good triode) and you don't really want ALL that gain in one stage.

Unless proper attempts to stop it are made, RF will break through. 'Back in the Day' there was not so much RF kit about.

Microphony. Old hi-fi designs used 'shock mount' construction for valveholders for high gain stages. Does the AC X? And again, triodes are more suited as front ends! In any case, putting a speaker capable of 120dBSPL+ with stacks of gain behind it inches from a valve (any valve!) is bloody silly! But peeps WANT combos!

Reliability: The Artisans, 15 &30 W uses an 86 but at very low gain just to get 'pentode sound' . I think I had ONE die in 3 years?

Dave.

ToneControl

I love the Ef86 channels. Once I find a quiet one, it works fine for years

ICBM

Dodge said:

The DC30 sounds like a stiffer, harder version of an AC30 - similar sounding, but it's different.  Part of the AC30's charm is that it sounds like it's working really hard to give up the tone.  Matchless is more effortless, more muscular.  Both amps sound incredible.  As posted above, the alnico blues are a big part of the AC30 tone but Matchless also have the mismatched speaker load, the mismatched speaker types and the massive filtering - all of which push the amp tone away from 'classic' AC30.

I went around the houses when looking for the top-boost tone, I started with AC30's, lusted after and eventually bought a DC30 thinking it was a 'better' Vox, decided it was too loud and heavy and ended up with a smaller Lightning 15 after a long love affair with Cornell amps, played an AC30 again and bought one (Korg UK reissue) and I've ended up with a couple of 60's AC30's.  Full circle, lots of money spent getting back to where I started!

FWIW - I don't like EF86's in AC30's or DC30's.

I haven't owned any of them, but the Matchless I've heard which I like the best is also the Lightning. I haven't like the bigger models as much exactly because they sound too bold and strident compared to an AC30 - the Lightning didn't. I still prefer Voxes in general though.

I also dislike EF86s in this type of amp.

DJH83004

ecc83 said:

Microphony. Old hi-fi designs used 'shock mount' construction for valveholders for high gain stages. 

Dave.

In actual fact Dave some of the early combos such as the Selmer Zodiac, did have the white rubber mounted pre-amp valve bases, sadly they tend to harden with age and are not as effective. They also had the pre-amp chassis at the top of the cab with lots of metalwork around it, and with the power amp at the bottom of the cab, to help isolate the pickup from the mains transformer, so some thought did go into the design back then, and don't forget the line of tone push-buttons straight out of a radiogram !   

ecc83

Ooo! I remember those Selmers! Always thought it was the very best way to make a valve combo. Put the heavy PA traff stuff at the bottom of the cab and have an umbilical up to the lightweight pre amp.

Sadly, costafortune to do now. In fact I have a valve pre amp so made and was going to power it with 20V DC and use a chip/MOSFET 300V converter. One of 100 things I shall never do now!

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Ooo! I remember those Selmers! Always thought it was the very best way to make a valve combo. Put the heavy PA traff stuff at the bottom of the cab and have an umbilical up to the lightweight pre amp.

Sadly, costafortune to do now.

Actually Fender made the Excelsior like that (in China) very recently. Unfortunately, unlike Selmer they didn't put any connectors at either end of the 'shower hose' between the two, so they are permanently connected together and a bit of a pain to work on!

ecc83

ICBM said:

ecc83 said:

Ooo! I remember those Selmers! Always thought it was the very best way to make a valve combo. Put the heavy PA traff stuff at the bottom of the cab and have an umbilical up to the lightweight pre amp.

Sadly, costafortune to do now.

Actually Fender made the Excelsior like that (in China) very recently. Unfortunately, unlike Selmer they didn't put any connectors at either end of the 'shower hose' between the two, so they are permanently connected together and a bit of a pain to work on!

Oh! Tw*ts. I still have a couple of pristine octal line sockets with covers if anyone has the need?

Dave.