Real or not, what do we all think?

grungebob

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-guitar-used-owned-played-by-John-Miles-Music/322815417898?hash=item4b294c5e2a:g:ossAAOSwPc9WxxyS

seems to be suggesting  59 Les Paul, if it was me id make better enquiries to its authenticity than going on the words of other ebayers.

HarrySeven

This thing's been doing the rounds for years...

stickyfiddle

HarrySeven said:

This thing's been doing the rounds for years...

This. You'd think they'd at least try and put some better pictures up now that it's so easy to do so. Unless they're hiding something, obviously.

HarrySeven

"...After all the guff I hear on the net from dealers and some of the guess-work from couch experts, I prefer to sell this guitar to a musician who can come to view with his own Gibson expert, to examine and appraise the guitar. I am sick of dealers wasting my time. Some are like vultures."

Everyone should have their own Gibson expert - can you buy them from Pets At Home?

markv

I see it comes with a "letter of providence". 

According to the dictionary, providence means "the protective care of God or of nature as a spiritual power."

If that's not worth £50 grand by itself, I don't know what is.

guitars4you

almost 3 points to this

1) has it been owned by J Miles ? - he mentions he has verification of that fact - I recall JM playing such a guitar in the 70's when he was acquiring some TV and radio time 

2) is it a 59 LP - far harder to answer - obviously a few changes have taken place and could well reflect wear n tear by regular use that is not unusual - But beyond by ability to confirm that it is  a genuine 59

3) then assuming 1 + 2 are kosher then you need to place a value on it - fair to say a 59 LP used and played by JM will have little additional value  compared to many more iconic 'guitar hero's'

Just a gut feeling - but based on its originality, changes and other issues then it appears to be in somewhat of a no mans land - The serious investors would rather spend  6 digits on an original piece that is 'original' condition as against 50K on a 'molestered' model - Whereas a player can buy either a good 59 reissue or indeed an early 50's rebuild that @jumping@shadows builds for far less - still vintage criteria and probably a superior playing example

danishbacon

This guitar has been discussed at lenght:

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/59-burst-in-uk-£50k.361790/

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/gibson-les-paul-standard-guitar-1957-john-miles-owned.109798/

EricTheWeary

This has come up before, I know this because I always get to say do you know I have met John Miles?* He had a guitar with him at the time although wether it was a 59 Les Paul I have no idea. The only thing really I remember about the gig ( I was doing work experience at a festival in about 1982) was that he had to keep stopping to retune all the time. 

Yes - we discussed it almost exactly two years ago and,yes, I gave the same anecdote then as well. It was also pointed out that John is still active on the Tyneside scene and this guitar is in Essex so it's almost certainly not him selling it. 


* Said hello and stood quite near him for a while. 

Tat2dstesh

can I go one better @EricTheWeary I was at the same school and class as his Son John Errington aka John miles Jr.. and last I remember he lived in Boldon South Tyneside, not Essex. Don't ever recall seeing that guitar though to be honest, but his son owned quite a few Ibanez guitars like Jem's and RG stuff.

EricTheWeary

Tat2dstesh said:

can I go one better @EricTheWeary I was at the same school and class as his Son John Errington aka John miles Jr.. and last I remember he lived in Boldon South Tyneside, not Essex. Don't ever recall seeing that guitar though to be honest, but his son owned quite a few Ibanez guitars like Jem's and RG stuff.

That might be several better. 

StormshadowGuitars

HarrySeven said:

"...After all the guff I hear on the net from dealers and some of the guess-work from couch experts, I prefer to sell this guitar to a musician who can come to view with his own Gibson expert, to examine and appraise the guitar. I am sick of dealers wasting my time. Some are like vultures."

Everyone should have their own Gibson expert - can you buy them from Pets At Home?

Next aisle to the "Wood Experts"

guitars4you

A friend of mine in the trade who looks at FB (never contributes) had a look at this blog and states similar to others that it has been around the block on a few occasions, with past stories linked to certain Yorkshire men

as for the value - again my assumption that a fan has purchased it, maybe when JM had a larger following than today, yet struggles to obtain any inflated value today for a guitar played by 'yesterdays hero' - That isn't meant to be nasty - I suspect that if it was just a non original 50's LP with no inflated 'artist' value, then with a price in single digits, then the likes of @jumping@shadows could buy it and turn it into a players grade glorious example

I stated earlier that a market exists for an LP worth 6 digits amongst serious collectors - equally a market exists for conversions from the likes of @jumping@shadows - I don't see much of a market for a guitar similar to this JM 59 LP at anything around 50K

Skipped

I find the advert an insult to people who love Conversions and who are interested in 50s Conversions. It sounds like he cannot be bothered to determine what  he has.
He cannot even answer the critical questions for any potential buyer.

What year was the donor guitar?
No idea mate.
Well....have you checked the butt end for Trapeze holes?
Nope.
Which Luthier did the Conversion?
No idea. It might have been  Dick. Or a dick.

Time wasting buyers are annoying. But not as annoying as sellers who are time wasting jokers.

prowla

Unfortunately I'm a little short of the asking price, and for that reason, I'm out!

midlifecrisis

les pauls were my first love.
and they will be my last.
les pauls are the future.
and les pauls of the past.

to live without my les paul,
would be impossible to do.
in this worls of troubles.
my les paul pulls me through.

(hope i got the right bloke)

JDE

I'm sure if it were real Bonamassa would have bought it by now.

rico

Who is John Miles?

SNAKEBITE

I got bored after reading the first few lines.

jumping@shadows

That’s an early ‘53 LP Goldtop that’s had the smaller output hole poorly drilled out, and retopped by Dick Knight in the ‘70s- it’s impossible to be anything pre early/mid ‘57 as the diameter of the switch cavity is too small.
It’s tedious that every time a Dick Knight retop pops up (which are so distinctive and identifiable in their inaccuracies vs stock ‘50s such as the infamous centre seam separation, free hand painted S/N, wonky pickup placement, cavity routing, top figure etc), there’s a hot debate over whether it’s a real Burst- it’s wilful ignorance on the part of the seller.
I was recently brought an alleged ‘58 Burst with original DW PAFs (in itself impossible as DW’s came in ‘59), and it took about 4 seconds to identify it as a total and crude scratch build, and while the owner gave me the whole ‘well I’ve had this looked at by experts, and bought it in the ‘70s’ yada yada, when I laid out ‘53, ‘55, ‘60 and ‘68 Les Pauls next to it and demonstrated unless Gibson decided to dispense with all period templates, build methods and finishing schedules when they built his, it was indeed a ringer..
He had little choice but to agree with the hard evidence of organised, demonstrable and empirical knowledge, but seeing as he acquired it in lieu of a small debt and I paid him £7k for the PAFs, he took it pretty well, and admitted it had always seemed wishful thinking to believe it were the real deal. 

guitars4you

rico said:

Who is John Miles?

had a few hits in the 70's notably Slowdown, Highfly and then Music  (a big epic production number in the style of Bohemian Rhapsody and 10CC's Mandy with multiple parts - still gets plenty of airplay on Radio 2 ) - more than competent as a muso and guitarists

Rox

guitars4you said:

rico said:

Who is John Miles?

had a few hits in the 70's notably Slowdown, Highfly and then Music  (a big epic production number in the style of Bohemian Rhapsody and 10CC's Mandy with multiple parts - still gets plenty of airplay on Radio 2 ) - more than competent as a muso and guitarists

And Dudley Simpson of the BBC pretty much nicked the middle part of "Music" for the Blakes' 7 theme.