Bradley Wiggins and doping accusations

p90fool

Telejester said:

it was a total catch 22, if you werent on the juice you hadnt a chance and arnstrong just got caught abd he should have stayed away after 2005

That is exactly the problem. Clean, honest athletes, who's lifelong ambition since childhood has been to race in the TdF get to a level where they're selected for a team and immediately realised that it's not even remotely possible to be competitive unless they do what everyone else is doing. 

You really don't have a hope, everything you've ever dreamed of is just bullshit, and you either toe the line or give up your career. It is absolutely rife, it may be the only sport where cheating among the top athletes is almost universal. 

It's tragic, how do you say to today's nine year olds, don't bloody bother, your sport is a total sham? 

BigMonka

I may be incredibly naive, but I believe the line that the sport has had a massive reduction in doping since all the scandal's broke over the last 5-10years. Certainly I don't believe that anyone is doing the huge blood-transfusion style doping these days. Are they pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable with things like TUES? Yes probably, but the scale is way smaller than it used to be (IMO).

crunchman

Fuengi said:

mikeyrob73 said:

Should just let them take whatever they want and see how fast they can really go :-) 

I suggested exactly this to a mate. He raised an eyebrow. "Oh yeah" I said, "that's what they're doing!" 

Judging by the average speeds they probably aren't taking as much now as they were in 2005.  Any doping that is still going on will be on a much lower level, and more subtle.  The introduction of the blood passport has made a big difference.

You can't just allow it.  The pros might be doing it under medical supervision and it's probably not outright dangerous in the short term.  The problem is that there were amateurs who were taking EPO without supervision who made their blood so thick that they died in their sleep.

DLM

p90fool said:

Telejester said:

it was a total catch 22, if you werent on the juice you hadnt a chance and arnstrong just got caught abd he should have stayed away after 2005

That is exactly the problem. Clean, honest athletes, who's lifelong ambition since childhood has been to race in the TdF get to a level where they're selected for a team and immediately realised that it's not even remotely possible to be competitive unless they do what everyone else is doing. 

You really don't have a hope, everything you've ever dreamed of is just bullshit, and you either toe the line or give up your career. It is absolutely rife, it may be the only sport where cheating among the top athletes is almost universal. 

It's tragic, how do you say to today's nine year olds, don't bloody bother, your sport is a total sham? 

Wis'd. Just look at poor Graeme O'Bree.

Sassafras

When I was competing, I had asthma and so was officially entitled to use an inhaler that dispensed cocaine, heroin, amphetamines and steroids in massive doses.

p90fool

Lol, where's that meme of Keef leading the peloton  on a shopping bike when you need it? 

Ravenous

p90fool said:

Lol, where's that meme of Keef leading the peloton  on a shopping bike when you need it? 

"It'zz nottabboutt the biike, love"

Telejester

http://www.blacknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/black_pimp.jpg

It astonishes me how the UCI doesnt think there is a drugs problem even when this directeur sportif shows up

Boromedic

I think the drug thing has carried on since the Armstrong days but they try to toe that fine line of legal/TUE exemptions now looking for all the marginal gains. There is probably some low level illegal stuff going on as well but difficult to prove. 

The thing is, and outside observers fall foul of this, regardless of the drug taking even during the Pantani and Armstrong eras, you still have to smash yourself to win a Grand Tour. It takes a shed load of hard work to get into the top general classification places, did the blood doping etc. allow Armstrong to artificially elevate his performance and win? Absolutely, but you have to be pretty much capable of being up there to get the benefits of it. You or I couldn't just dope and suddenly be a GT winner. Do I condone it? Absolutely not, but it's still not easy by any stretch. Tyler Hamiltons book was a big eye opener for me regarding a lot of the Armstrong era stuff.

Its a massive shame that even now we can't believe its clean, that being said I still respect the effort involved in getting to be that good in the first place. 

sev112

Drug use has been in cycling for far longer back than Armstrong, Pantani, 1960s whoever. It goes right back to the first TdFs when the cyclists all had their bags of individual medicines for all their races, all uniquely derived and most had their preferred doctors to give the, their drugs.  It was a necessary method of getting to the end of races,

im certainly not going to support Armstrong, but the other teams were using the same doctors and the same techniques long before Armstrong’s team and before.  Pantani’s biographies will show that.  And others’

I guess there there is no money and not much media story in chasing the other dopers any more.  Remember Armstrong’s case wasn’t because cycling authorities were tracking him down, and it wasn’t because the media were so good and honest about tracking him down.  He got caught because the US government were chasing him for fraud because of the money he had been given by the US Postal Service as sponsor.  UPS and US government aren’t interested in anyone else and so that’s one reason why only Armstrong has been chased down. Note that nobody is queuing up to claim the TdF titles that have been taken away from him.

every year we champion that great British cyclist, Simpson, who died in the TdF climbing a big mountain.  If one reads his biography he clearly was a great guy, great sportsman, etc.  He also died because of taking drugs.

I’m really disappointed in Sky. Because this just doesn’t look good 

Boromedic

Yeah doping isn't new in the peloton, Mercx in particular escaped unscathed and most acknowledge that he must have been doing something. I do actually believe in Lemond though, pretty sure he was clean but you never know!

Remember as well with Armstrong, if he never came back he probably would've kept his titles.