A Simple Secret to Fat Guitar Tones ~ Tim Pierce

ChrisMusic

This video speaks for itself, it's easy to get fat, clean, and dirty tones, simply by using the gain range of your amp and dynamics in your picking.

I have always been a bit suspicious with the total efficacy of the guitar volume control in relation to tone, which Tim demonstrates here, against the use of a volume pedal.  Not sure how his board is wired, though I am convinced enough to try this myself now with a pedal, and maybe to give a thin plectrum a try again too.  Thanks Tim   

I would be interested in your views too...

Duration 13:32

https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmBriFqa2as

prlgmnr

I love all these ones where he's yelling BUT TO ME IT STILL READS AS CLEAN over an amp that sounds like it's cranked about 90 percent of the way.

Seriously though, I love Tim's vids and especially the ones where he's working on overdubs over a track, he always seems to know exactly what to add.

Neill

I think it's a useful reminder that you can get a variety of tones just using a cranked amp and intelligent use of the pick, or your fingers. Of course, not that long ago this was pretty much all we had anyway.

The use of a volume pedal is interesting, it's clearly a much more versatile/effective tool than the guitar control, one of those things that seems so obvious when someone demonstrates it you wonder why you haven't tried it yourself.

Thanks for posting this. 

          

merlin

Yup. I mentioned in another thread that they're the most important pedal on your board. I always play with the guitar volume wide open and use the pedal instead.

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/117804/

impmann

Hmmm... ok, so all he's showing you is if you push an amp into overdrive its all about how much input (energy) that gives you the amount of clipping that comes in. A micro amp is a clean boost and  is going to push the input input valve - once it gets to its maximum gain its going to clip. Reduce that, both in terms of the input volume from the guitar and softer attack from your picking and you'll get less clipping. Is this news? Watch Townsend at Woodstock for a masterclass in how you can do this live...

IIRC, the vol pot on an Anderson has a treble bleed so that explains the 'spikes' he mentions. Volume pedals do tend to be 'smoother' but they can rob the high frequency in some cases - some brands are worse than others for loading up your sound.

As for the picking technique... yes, softer picking will give you less energy input into the string. However a soft pick will never give you proper snap off the string for hard rock styles IMHO - and will soften the attack. With control a thick plectrum will do the same - for those at the jam, I was doing exactly that to get the different sounds out of the Goldtop. If you listen to the Soundcloud clips - the only difference to get those Sex Pistol tones vs the cleaner stuff like on Learning to Fly was to do with how you dig into the strings. If you have thin strings, there gets a point where you can over-energise them and you've reached the limit of your dynamic range. Thats why I tend to use 10s as a minimum - and I prefer a pick that can't 'compress' when you dig in. If you play hard on a soft pick, its always going to sound soft... horses for courses.

FWIW, Nile Rogers uses quite thick picks for his stuff to get that snap (and rarely anything other than the neck pickup live) and his live sound isn't quite as 'clean' as folks think. There are a lot of mids to push the sound forwards and theres a slight 'clip' to it.

Using fuzz or distortion is different - yes you may reduce the clipping a little but you'll unlikely get a useable 'clean' sound. A lot of modern amps use diodes to get their huge 'overdrive' and may not respond in the same way as Tim shows here - he does make mention of it - but a micro amp into the front end of a straightforward valve amp is going to make the input valve clip when it gets past its operating gain threshold, reduce the energy it is trying to process and it will stop clipping. Simples.

RandallFlagg

Pete Townsend used a volume pedal with the Gretsch 6120 and Tweed Fender Bandmaster, the rig that Joe Walsh gave him, on Who's Next and other later recordings.The volume pedal was an integral part of the sound and I recall him saying that it just didn't sound the same without it.

Fretwired

The volume pedal technique was widely used in the 1960s. If a recall DeArmond used to make a pedal called the Tone Shaper (or something similar). It was basically a volume pedal (up/down) and a tone control (left/right) so you could get a wah type sound. Jimmy Page was a user. Crank your single channel amp and use the Tone Shaper to control the tone.

ChrisMusic

Good post Impmann, (full post above) thanks for the extra info too  

I need to pay more attention to Townsend.  Always a Nile Rodgers fan   

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impmann said:

IIRC, the vol pot on an Anderson has a treble bleed so that explains the 'spikes' he mentions. Volume pedals do tend to be 'smoother' but they can rob the high frequency in some cases - some brands are worse than others for loading up your sound.

That may well explain it, I haven't used a volume pedal, so never done the comparison, but a treble pass on the guitar volume would definitely make a difference in the comparison.  He is usually pretty thorough with descriptions, so I am surprised he didn't mention either that, or how his board is wired, as possible contributors to the different tones.

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impmann said:

Hmmm... ok, so all he's showing you is if you push an amp into overdrive its all about how much input (energy) that gives you the amount of clipping that comes in... Is this news?

You're right about the "is this news" comment, I know what you meant, and for many on here it is stating the obvious, won from experience, but there are thankfully a lot of new players finding this forum, who are hopefully finding their way through the maze of information, and misinformation, about that most subjective of subjects "tone".  Hopefully a bit of useful news for them  

You are spot on about the use of a soft pick, I tried one and stopped almost immediately for just the reasons you described.  Far too much compression and loss of dynamic control, acts as a limiter when pushed, as you say.  Nasty, clicky, flappy thing that was not my favourite experience.  Works better on thin strings as it limits how out of tune they go on the attack part of the envelope with heavier picking.  Tried them too, not a fan though.

I too feel that you can get that soft tone with a gentle brush of a stiffer pick, although it tests your technique more.  Where you play along the string not only affects tone, but also the dynamic relationship between energy in via the pick, and energy out in terms of string vibration IMO.  Different pick materials make a huge difference to tone too, as does a change to fingers (obviously).

richardhomer

Interesting to see someone advocating a lighter right hand - since SRV the fashion seems to have been to hammer the bejesus out of your guitar. Although SRV got a ‘big’ clean(ish) sound - but many of his copiests sound surprisingly small. Greg Koch always sounds ‘clicky’ to me - and seems to have a heavyish right-hand attack.