I went to a Bluegrass jam...

Lewy

When it comes to large soundholes and bluegrass, it all comes from one specific guitar - Tony Rice’s D28 which previously belonged to Clarence White. Acoustically, it is said to not be all that loud, and has less bass and more mids. That’s allegedly down to the soundhole but there’s so much else going on with that guitar. The body is smaller in all dimensions than it should be, it’s been flooded and dried out ... impossible to say why it sounds the way it does. 

What can can be said is that that guitar has not spent much time in bluegrass jams as we think of them, and the same can be said of Tony Rice. A delicate and nuanced player who would almost certainly be inaudible at your typical bluegrass picking session.

crunchman

Lewy said:

ps. @crunchman - which tuner app has a dB meter? Would love to find out the relative loudness of my guitars as they vary a lot from the “driving seat”.

@lewy it's DA Tuner Lite.

Obviously, given different phones with different mics and sensitivities it's not going to be an accurate absolute value but it can give you an idea.  I was surprised that the Martin was that much louder.  It doesn't actually seem that loud when you are playing it.  I've played some Martins that come across as absolute cannons when you play them but this one just seems really well balanced, but still produces decent volume.

Trude

Jimbro66 said:

I played dobro in a bluegrass band for 4 or 5 years and have played at hundreds of bluegrass jams. Banjo, fiddle and dobro are all louder than guitar and a mandolin cuts through well because of its higher frequencies. 

Out of interest @Jimbro66, which model of dobro were you using?  I dabble a bit and play a Gretsch Bobtail squareneck in a country band (also play electric on most of the songs).  It's fine when miked up or plugged in, but it doesn't cut through so well in acoustic settings.  I can usually hear it fine myself when playing of course, but people have told me it doesn't project very well.  I don't know how much of this is down to technique (I am using nylon thumbpick and nickel fingerpicks), or if it's the instrument itself holding me back.

Is this the start of a whole new era of Squareneck-GAS? 

CloudNine

Some of the Collings I have had were pretty loud, had a D3 that was a beast. I guess would cut through well, not that I have ever been to a bluegrass jam... Wasn't a great strummer though to be honest, lacking a bit of warmth. Suppose that is often the trade off with guitars that are built to be loud for bluegrass. Also had an early SCGC Tony Rice, with the big soundhole. That wasn't a particularly loud guitar, sounded nice though. Slight issue that it was collapsing in on itself... Maybe a little too much the light build side some of the SCGC's, although they mostly sound beautiful.

Currently have a Bourgeois D Signature, Adirondack and Madagascar RW, which is an incredible guitar. Seems to have all the power and volume you could ever need, but not harsh in any way. Would make a great bluegrass guitar, but still fantastic for strumming and finger style. Very versatile, and probably has the most 'wow factor' on first strum of any dread I have played.

Lewy

CloudNine said:

Some of the Collings I have had were pretty loud, had a D3 that was a beast. I guess would cut through well, not that I have ever been to a bluegrass jam... Wasn't a great strummer though to be honest, lacking a bit of warmth.

 Very much the Collings dread thing - acoustic grunt, but quite bright, very direct and it all goes forward, not much back to you as the player. Perfect in a jam and on the stage, but far from the most gratifying sofa guitar.

I’m a fan but totally see why people try them and don’t like them compared to warmer instruments. I think the new “Traditional” range is quite diffeeent though. 

Jimbro66

Trude said:

Out of interest @Jimbro66, which model of dobro were you using?  I dabble a bit and play a Gretsch Bobtail squareneck in a country band (also play electric on most of the songs).  It's fine when miked up or plugged in, but it doesn't cut through so well in acoustic settings.  I can usually hear it fine myself when playing of course, but people have told me it doesn't project very well.  I don't know how much of this is down to technique (I am using nylon thumbpick and nickel fingerpicks), or if it's the instrument itself holding me back.

Is this the start of a whole new era of Squareneck-GAS? 

I started off with Dobro D60 which was a bit feeble. Then I had a couple of square-neck resos built for me about 12 years ago by Gregg McKenna, one 6-string and the other 8-string. Gregg had a workshop in Windsor CT but I believe he is retired now. His instruments come up from time to time in the classifieds of American forums.

When I changed from the Dobro to the McKenna the difference in tone, volume and particularly sustain was quite marked. The problem with square-neck reso pricing is that there is a big jump from the entry level ones of a few hundred pounds to the luthier ones often upwards of £3K. Something like a used Goldtone or Wechter Scheerhorn would probably be a step up from the Gretsch without spending silly money.

As regards being heard, the square-neck reso throws most its volume upwards so it sounds a lot louder to the player than to the listeners. The opposite of an acoustic guitar really. If you can, tilt the instrument forward slightly and then dig in!

Jimbro66

CloudNine said:

Currently have a Bourgeois D Signature, Adirondack and Madagascar RW, which is an incredible guitar. Seems to have all the power and volume you could ever need, but not harsh in any way. Would make a great bluegrass guitar, but still fantastic for strumming and finger style. Very versatile, and probably has the most 'wow factor' on first strum of any dread I have played.

The guitarist of the bluegrass band I played in used a Bourgeois dread of similar spec. Great sounding guitar and lovely to play.

Trude

Thanks @Jimbro66 - I'll keep an eye out for those makes.

AliGorie

VimFuego said:

think the chap in mumford plays a banjitar (banjo body but guitar neck and tuning) or mebbe a tenor banjo, which is basically a banjo body and tenor guitar neck and tuning.

yup - all contrived image that stuff, now here's contrived image (including a string for a strap and an ol' style 'Hamilton' capo -
I prefer ol' tyme country music - jug bands etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL94lAhcik0

and on guitar -
https://youtu.be/v8qYxC0lt_4

rossi

I used to play bluegrass and stuff with my mate in the  mid 60;s at london folk clubs .Used a Harmony Sovereign and sung harmony with my mate..I had no idea that there were blue grass jams  around .Trouble is my Sov is knackered from all those Epiphone heavy guage strings I used to put on ,a set a week .Has a fingerbpard like a farmers field and fret ruts as  just as deep .I do have a NOS fingerboard but never plucked up courage to try fitting it .