MJW

GazMoz

Just got myself an MJW Orion EL34 50w and last night was it's first outing. It was a gig of two halves.... The first set was awful, I had the amp running in full power mode with the gain and volume (Pre amp) at around 1:00 and the master at around 11:00. The amp was not loud enough, I was really struggling to get above the drums and my solo boosts were non existent. In the second set I decided to run the master at 1:00 and the preamp volume and gain at 11:00, totally different beast, easily loud enough. And, now my tubescreamer in the front and my linier volume boost in the loop worked great. 
My question; is this normal?...  I assumed with the amp cooking so high in the master section my boosts would be nullified? I'm used to playing amps like the EVH where you run the gain really high and the master ends up being as loud as the venue will allow, usually way below 12:00. 
Any input greatly appreciated, thanks 

simonk

Best to run the OD channel volume as high as possible... it sounded best above midway (try around 8). Then use the master accordingly. It’s a bloody loud amp so I’d be surprised if you found it unable to keep up with an enthusiastic drummer...

guitarfishbay

You can’t really compare settings between amps, there are too many variables. Just set it to where it sounds good and don’t worry about what the knobs say.

I know what you mean, in that some amps get incredibly loud early on in the pots taper, but if anything it is preferable to have an amp where the range is a bit more gradual. That way you have better fine control over the volume.

I haven’t played one of those amps but the builder is a member here @martinw ;

GazMoz

simonk

I didn't find that at all, although that's what I would have thought. I found that when I ran the channel volume high the amp didn't really get that much louder. It was only when I wound up the master that it got really loud. Also with the channel volume up that high my tubescreamer did virtually nothing.

GazMoz

guitarfishbay

Yes I know what you mean by having preconceptions from other amps, you shouldn't have them, but I've never ran any amp up that loud at a pub gig. Don't get me wrong, it was wonderful, loads of tube compression. The only other time I've ran an amplifier that high in a local pub it was a 12watt reproduction of an old Gibson amp

martinw

If anyone has any questions relating to how to operate an MJW amp, they can always contact me through my website and I will be happy to advise! With respect, the 'issue' here is in how to set the amp up.

I'm not quite sure what the problem is here, apart from as @guitarfishbay says, your preconceptions from other amps. To answer your question then:

GazMoz said:

My question; is this normal?... 

What, that the amp gets louder in a linear progressive way as you turn the master volume up? Well, it should be, but for various reasons, often not. Some manufacturers, as you state, make their amps get very loud very quickly and then the volume control has less effect over the rest of the range. You seem to be falling for the desired outcome, in thinking that the EVH will keep getting louder and louder and is therefore a louder amp than other 50W amps. It won't and it isn't. That's what they want you to think.

I make my volume controls linear and progressive. If you want it as loud as possible, keep turning the master up until it's loud enough.

GazMoz said:

 I assumed with the amp cooking so high in the master section my boosts would be nullified?

No. You're not understanding how a volume control works. It is a restrictor device, it doesn't push the power amp. The more you open the control up, the more headroom you'll have to allow a boost in the loop to raise the volume.

Basically you didn't have the master set loud enough, as you found. As Simon says, the OD channel volume is there to enable you to balance clean/OD channel volumes, and is best set as high as possible.

From the Orion user notes:

1. Overdrive channel volume. This control is to balance the overdrive sounds against the clean channel. As such, it is best run as high as possible, so that the overdrive channel can drive the phase inverter in the manner of typical non-master volume amps. Start with the overdrive channel volume around 7 or 8.

GazMoz said:

simonk

I didn't find that at all, although that's what I would have thought. I found that when I ran the channel volume high the amp didn't really get that much louder. It was only when I wound up the master that it got really loud. Also with the channel volume up that high my tubescreamer did virtually nothing.

The channel volume can only make the amp louder when it's not being restricted by the master volume. Even then, after a certain point, with a high preamp gain, it will overdrive the phase inverter past a certain point and add compression and drive without getting louder. If the TS is doing nothing, it's because you're not allowing it anywhere to go. Possibly you had too much preamp gain, but weren't able to discern that because of the power amp compression?

If you want a copy of the user notes I can email them to you, and don't hesitate to call if you want to chat about it and I can talk you through things in more detail. I'm always happy to support my amps when I can, beyond the first owner.

I hope you get used to the way the Orion works and enjoy using it. I would hope that once used to it, you find it a bit more rewarding that most mainstream amps.

Cheers!

GazMoz

martinw

Hi, thanks for the reply. I would love a copy of the user notes.
Just to clarify, I was blown away buy the amp once I'd gotten my head round how high to run the master and the tubescreamer worked great once I had.
 I was running the amp on the drive channel with the gain at about 12:00, no boost engaged, so not that hot.
 I've never used an amp with gain, volume and master controls before so was unsure what the "volume" knob was for. I'm used to gain and master only.
 I'm a low output pickup's volume knob n drive pedal kind'a player so it suited me. 
I use an Electro Harmonix linear volume boost in the loop to give an overall volume boost when necessary. Would you recommend that? Seems to work okay
Once again thanks for the reply

hywelg

As someone who has run pedals into 'clean' amps for quite a few years, you do have to be careful. Pre-amps can easily reach saturation when hit by a big boost from a pedal, and no matter what the master volume, you'll just get more dirt and compression and no extra volume. You have to allow headroom in the pre-amp if you want a genuine volume boost from a pedal, that, I'm afraid, is a fact of life.

And the other fact of life is what seems like a huge volume boost when you are setting your amp up for a venue will likely not be that much louder when you have the whole band joining in and a room full of people. If you really want a proper solo boost in volume you need to make it really really loud in comparison to your normal rhythm volume. After all you do have a volume knob.

martinw

GazMoz said:

Hi, thanks for the reply. I would love a copy of the user notes.
Just to clarify, I was blown away buy the amp once I'd gotten my head round how high to run the master and the tubescreamer worked great once I had.

Cool

GazMoz said:

 
I use an Electro Harmonix linear volume boost in the loop to give an overall volume boost when necessary. Would you recommend that? Seems to work okay
Once again thanks for the reply

You're welcome.

And yes, an LPB should be fine, used with care in the loop.

GazMoz

martinw GazMoz said:

 
I use an Electro Harmonix linear volume boost in the loop to give an overall volume boost when necessary. Would you recommend that? Seems to work okay
Once again thanks for the reply

You're welcome.

And yes, an LPB should be fine, used with care in the loop.

Ah great, it's been my secret weapon for solo's for quite a while now.

GazMoz

hywelg said:

As someone who has run pedals into 'clean' amps for quite a few years, you do have to be careful. Pre-amps can easily reach saturation when hit by a big boost from a pedal, and no matter what the master volume, you'll just get more dirt and compression and no extra volume. You have to allow headroom in the pre-amp if you want a genuine volume boost from a pedal, that, I'm afraid, is a fact of life.

And the other fact of life is what seems like a huge volume boost when you are setting your amp up for a venue will likely not be that much louder when you have the whole band joining in and a room full of people. If you really want a proper solo boost in volume you need to make it really really loud in comparison to your normal rhythm volume. After all you do have a volume knob.

Thanks, yeah I don't rely on drive pedals into the front end for volume boosts. I run a volume boost pedal in the loop. I only use drive pedals for a little more gain and compression