Which Specs are Significant?

p90fool

Ro_S said:

crunchman said:
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The pickups are an important factor, but they aren't the most important factor.  If it was just dependent on pickups and scale length then a 335 would sound the same as a Les Paul.  I know that's not what you are saying, but even on solid body guitars the wood and construction make a big difference.

Pickups are the biggest factor.   I never suggested they are the only factor.

Stick non traditional pickups, such as Strat single coils, in a Les Paul and tell me how traditional Les Paul ish it sounds, compared to, say, an SG with PAFs in it.

You are absolutely correct of course, I have a Les Paul with some seriously underwound Teisco style single coils in it and an SG would broadly sound much closer to what people would expect from a classic Les Paul than mine does. 

However, there is an unmistakable and unavoidable "Les Paul-ness" about the sound of my guitar, even with pickups which are as wildly "wrong" as you could get. 

I think @thegummy ; hit the nail on the head earlier when he said if he put PAFs in a PRS he'd still be left wondering whether he'd have got closer just by buying a Les Paul. 

My experience says yes, you WILL always be wondering, until you go and buy the guitar you always wanted in the first place. 

JayGee

thegummy said:

JayGee said:

It really doesn’t matter.

If you like the noise it makes, and that noise works in the context you want to use it in then why worry - and I’d say that a PRS SE245 is going to sound close enough to a Les Paul that the differences are going to be more about personal preference than anything else.

If @MattG is about then he’ll be able to tell you all about the time we went to Peach Guitars to try a whole bunch of Les Pauls and he came back with a rather lovely second hand PRS (USA rather than SE) Single cut which the previous owner had fitted with a pair of Suhr Aldrich pickups because it was close enough to the same vibe and he just plain liked it better than anything else in the shop that day, including things costing several multiples of the price...

You're right about what matters but there's no way for me to know if I like the noise made by a PRS SE 245 with swapped pickups apart from buying one and swapping the pickups. To be honest, even if I did that, I'd always wonder if I'd have been better off with the LP lol

Well, in your position what I think I’d be doing (on the assumption that you’ve got a sympathetic shop to hand - I might be spoiled by having Peach Guitars to hand) is giving a stock SE245 (or whatever else takes your fancy as having the right vibe, but on the basis of Youngest Sons SE Singlecut, and my own SE Singlecut Soapbar it’s hard to go to go too far wrong with a PRS SE...) a good workout through something close to your own amp, deciding what you and/or don’t like about the way it sounds, having a good think about what you’d like to change, and then engaging in conversation with somebody like @TheGuitarWeasel[1] (who knows more about what can be done with magnets and wire than you or I could ever hope to and can either point you at something suitable from his own Oil City range, wind you something bespoke, or point you elsewhere) to see if a pickup change is likely to get you there. You should be able to scratch the Les Paul itch as well if you pick the right shop, and in fact I’d urge you to do so to give yourself a point of reference, both for yourself and when/if you’re talking to other people about any pickup or hardware changes...

In the end of the day it’s down to your ears, fingers, and heart so there’s no substitute for blagging time on other peoples guitars to form your own view.

In the interests of balance I have to declare a significant number of PRS guitars around the house (Eldest Son’s US Singlecut, my Mira and SE Singlecut Soapbar, Youngest Son’s SE Singlecut) but we also have a couple of Gibsons (I’ve got an Explorer, Eldest Son has an SG), an assortment of Fenders, and sundry other stuff around the house so I don’t *think* it’s a Fanboi thing...

[1] Other bespoke pickupmongers are available!

Maynehead

Ironically, most of the specs usually found on guitar listings are completely irrelevant to me.

The things that make the most difference are:

Neck join - upper fret access is key for me, which rules out most traditional Les Paul and Fender guitars straight away. I just find it so uncomfortable to play anything above the 17th fret on them. I mostly go for through-necks now for this reason, or Ibanez style AANJ.

Neck profile - I like thin and narrow necks. I’ve had to reject what otherwise would have been a perfect guitar because the neck was a little thick on the corners or a little too wide.

Bridge - I like floating bridges, it gives you more options. Any guitar that has a fixed bridge just feels crippled to me because there are certain songs I just can’t play properly on them.

Control layout - I like the volume pot to be somewhere out of the way. I can’t play guitars that have the volume knob directly under the bridge pickup, as I’ll keep hitting it while playing. Again, I’ve rejected guitars that I really liked purely based on the location of the volume pot.

Everything else, including the pickups, makes very little difference to me.

Ro_S

thegummy said:

I just want PAF style pickups so if I got a LP with BurstBuckers I'd keep them but the LP I like has hotter pickups that I'd replace.

Not sure what the 245 pickups are like, I'd guess they were vintage. I do actually really like the pickups that came in my SE custom 24.

Sounds like you need find out about those pickups in the 245. 

The specs between a PAF and a 'modern' humbucker will make far more difference than the 1.5mm variance in the scale length you mentioned in your OP.

thegummy

Ro_S said:

thegummy said:

I just want PAF style pickups so if I got a LP with BurstBuckers I'd keep them but the LP I like has hotter pickups that I'd replace.

Not sure what the 245 pickups are like, I'd guess they were vintage. I do actually really like the pickups that came in my SE custom 24.

Sounds like you need find out about those pickups in the 245. 

The specs between a PAF and a 'modern' humbucker will make far more difference than the 1.5mm variance in the scale length you mentioned in your OP.

Not that bothered really, they'd either be as paf-like as I want or I'd just swap them out.

This thread had basically made me rule out the PRS but now I'm all confused again at how the variations of Les Paul's will sound.

I might end up having no choice but to go with a Gibson under the reasoning that I predict I'd be less likely to wonder if I should have got a PRS than wonder if I should have got a Gibson.

Although, even as I write this I'm having doubts about that decision and worrying whether the slim neck LP I have my eye on will cut it even

Ro_S

@thegummy ;; 

how much are you looking to spend on this Les Paul sounding guitar?

have you tried Gibson Les Pauls out in a shop?  you might not even like how a Les Paul feels to play.  

thegummy

Ro_S said:

@thegummy ;; 

how much are you looking to spend on this Les Paul sounding guitar?

have you tried Gibson Les Pauls out in a shop?  you might not even like how a Les Paul feels to play.  

Could consider 2 grand but much preferably 1 grand.

Played a les Paul the other day, I like the feel. To be honest I've never played a decent electric guitar that I didn't like the feel of even though they're all different.

Ro_S

You don't sound over the top about how it felt to play.   If i were paying £1k-£2 on a guitar, I'd want it to feel like part of my body, with a lovely neck, and no forearm chaffing or numbing.  

richardhomer

Ro_S said:

If i were paying £1k-£2 on a guitar, I'd want it to feel like part of my body, with a lovely neck, and no forearm chaffing or numbing.  

You’re probably not going to like a Les Paul then....

thegummy

Ro_S said:

You don't sound over the top about how it felt to play.   If i were paying £1k-£2 on a guitar, I'd want it to feel like part of my body, with a lovely neck, and no forearm chaffing or numbing.  

Lol that's no reflection of how I felt about the lp, I'm just not as poetic about liking guitar necks as you

WezV

richardhomer said:

Ro_S said:

If i were paying £1k-£2 on a guitar, I'd want it to feel like part of my body, with a lovely neck, and no forearm chaffing or numbing.  

You’re probably not going to like a Les Paul then....

Or a telecaster custom.


or any acoustic

Ro_S

richardhomer said:

Ro_S said:

If i were paying £1k-£2 on a guitar, I'd want it to feel like part of my body, with a lovely neck, and no forearm chaffing or numbing.  

You’re probably not going to like a Les Paul then....

oh, i know!

thegummy

@Ro_S ;

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, this is how I usually look when enjoying a guitar lol

pintspiller

Between those two guitars, it could be down to feel of neck (fingerboard width and neck radius) that would decide what I prefer. Have you tried Reverend? Some of those sound and feel similar to Les Pauls too.

clarkefan

Years ago Dave Kilminster did a how to play famous solos by Les Paul players thing for Guitarist magazine and he sounded great using a PRS on the CD clips, they even commented on how great a LP sound he got using a PRS in the mag

No rules...

Ro_S

thegummy said:

@Ro_S ;

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, this is how I usually look when enjoying a guitar lol

you have a big strapon for your black beauty.

a visual representation of you being torn between PRS and LP

do you often perform for paper and cardboard?   i guess it's a cost of owning a LP.

thegummy

Ro_S said:

thegummy said:

@Ro_S ;

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, this is how I usually look when enjoying a guitar lol

you have a big strapon for your black beauty.

a visual representation of you being torn between PRS and LP

do you often perform for paper and cardboard?   i guess it's a cost of owning a LP.

Lol that's funny, we thought it would be cheeky to ask for money

Thought it was funny that I had that t shirt on too, appropriate for my dilemma