Suddenly thinking I might sell up and go Helix LT in 2018

John_A

Megii said:

I've heard the dxr10 is excellent. Hadn't come across the Db ones so useful to know about, cheers @John_A. I was looking at the Alto TS210 or maybe the 212 would be better if I also want to use Helix for bass. But I'm getting way ahead of myself...  

The DXR is excellent, the Alto's are OK, I've had one and certainly good enough for monitoring when going direct, the DXR is a big step up in quality though

jeztone2

I’m thinking about a Fractal AX-8. I’ve tried the Helix and it didn’t excite me. The other guitarist in my band has the Headrush and aside from the JCM800 tone, nothing on that unit remotely impresses me. 

The Fractal, from what I’ve seen of it online, at least sounds convincing. I was thinking of getting a compact powered cab like a Tech21 Power Engine to use onstage. 

steveb

John_A said:

Megii said:

I've heard the dxr10 is excellent. Hadn't come across the Db ones so useful to know about, cheers @John_A. I was looking at the Alto TS210 or maybe the 212 would be better if I also want to use Helix for bass. But I'm getting way ahead of myself...  

The DXR is excellent, the Alto's are OK, I've had one and certainly good enough for monitoring when going direct, the DXR is a big step up in quality though

A big step up in Sound quality or build quality?? Or both?? 

John_A

Both - Loads louder and more clear, a lot heavier, really depends on what you want to use it for, my little Db, probably an Alto TS210 equivalent gets most use, but bigger gigs, or where I'm using it as backline  I drag the DXR along

gearaddict

FWIW I tried the bigger (10") Db speaker and the Alto TS210 and the Alto sounded a lot better to me. I found the Db muffled sounding and kind of distant/disconnected. The Alto was a lot better. Not tried the DXR but for me, the whole FRFR thing was just too different-sounding to buy into. I think it might depend how you are used to playing live whether you like it or not.

steveb

@gearaddict how do you run yours then? Just trying to get opinions on how people are running them!!

gearaddict

Well, my plan when I got it was to run it in 4CM initially mainly for FX but swapping in the modelled pre-amps just to see how that felt. Then maybe to go to getting all my sounds from the helix by running it into the fx return of my amp. But I inevitably wanted to try and see what all the fuss was about wrt FRFR, so I went down that rabbit hole for a while before deciding I just prefer the sound out of a cab.

Also, my gigging life tends to be a case of turning up in a pub, not knowing what the PA situation will be and just sticking my amp in the corner and hoping for the best...I rarely have the luxury of proper micing-up or an actual sound engineer. So for me, using a real guitar cab is just more predictable.

steveb

Ive already got a 1x12 and a 2x12 cab so i was thinking of using either of them, however i dont see the point of me keeping my amp head just to use the fx return. Maybe the ehx magnum 44 poer amp pedal is an option.

digitalscream

steveb said:

Ive already got a 1x12 and a 2x12 cab so i was thinking of using either of them, however i dont see the point of me keeping my amp head just to use the fx return. Maybe the ehx magnum 44 poer amp pedal is an option.

I suspect you're going to want something with a lot more headroom than that, unless you're planning on just playing at home volumes.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

steveb said:

Ive already got a 1x12 and a 2x12 cab so i was thinking of using either of them, however i dont see the point of me keeping my amp head just to use the fx return. Maybe the ehx magnum 44 poer amp pedal is an option.

I suspect you're going to want something with a lot more headroom than that, unless you're planning on just playing at home volumes.

Agreed.

A 44 Magnum is loud, but if you’re coming from a valve amp even with as little as 20 Watts you’ll probably find it to be pretty thin at volume.

With solid state the bigger the better within reason. You pretty much never want to be pushing the limits of headroom. The only limiting factor will be the power handling of your speakers. 

John_A

A magnum 44 is surprisingly, no amazingly, loud, I gigged mine in. 5-piece rock covers band, with a loud drummer, bass player and a second guitarist.  The clean headroom is really good.  I used it with a AMT preamp before I got the Helix and went FRFR

steveb

Hmmmm!! Maybe ill look for one used. It would just be for home ise into a cab for now. Im just thinking of options without selling my cabs to fund an frfr speaker. I only got the LT yesterday so my minds just whizzing with potential solutions!!!  Cheers for your opinions guys. 

John_A

steveb said:

Hmmmm!! Maybe ill look for one used. It would just be for home ise into a cab for now. Im just thinking of options without selling my cabs to fund an frfr speaker. I only got the LT yesterday so my minds just whizzing with potential solutions!!!  Cheers for your opinions guys. 

Although mine was fine there have been reported reliability issues, I would get one used from Thomann with a 3 year warranty if you went down that route.  Don't do anything rash, just get used to it and see what transpires.  It really depends how you end up using it, this will either push you down the FRFR route or not.

Megii

Just FWIW, my Helix LT did arrive today - all I really had time to do was get the thing registered, download the appropriate software, update the firmware (from 2.12.2 to 2.30 version) and have a bit of a try through the presets using headphones - on some of the patches, I did try swapping in different reverbs, modulations etc also. Anyhow, I still have work to do to get my sounds programmed in and get a working, giggable setup - which initially will be using a solid state combo amp. After I've got to that stage I can figure out if FRFR is route I should go down. If I was a betting man I'd say yes, probably, but it's not a certainty yet.

But I do find the thing to be very impressive - the build quality seems excellent, I love the screen, love the lights that change colour around the switches, love the design of how the interface works in general - it does feel way better than the MS-3 in that respect. Trouble with the MS-3 for me was, if at a gig, I found there was, for e.g. too much feedback on a delay in a patch, then I'd just avoid using it for the gig, because it was too much hassle to change. With the Helix, it's simple stuff - the whole thing is much better for fine tuning sounds in real-world situations where you don't have time to waste. Re the sounds - all I can say at the mo is that I was impressed using headphones enough to think there is serious potential there - the modelling seems very detailed and "real" to me.

digitalscream

Megii said:

Re the sounds - all I can say at the mo is that I was impressed using headphones enough to think there is serious potential there - the modelling seems very detailed and "real" to me.

That's an excellent sign; headphones are pretty much the worst-case-scenario with almost any modeller. For me, in terms of sound quality, it's:

Headphones
FRFR
Studio monitors
Power amp + cab

Of course, in terms of convenience and practicality, the list is the other way up

Megii

Of course you're spot on re headphones @digitalscream - it's never going to be a perfect, natural way to hear a guitar. But the quality of the sounds was such that I really am very encouraged - certainly the best sound through headphones I've heard from any kind of effects unit or amp. I will see what I can get using the various amps I have tomorrow, and try and set up a patch or two of my own, should be interesting.

gearaddict

+1 on the Magnum 44 volume...I tried a cheap Harley Benton power amp (GPA-400) and then the Magnum and I preferred the sound of the Magnum and it was plenty loud enough and cheaper!

Like you, I felt like keeping a whole amp head just for running the helix into the power amp felt like a waste but the reality is that the valve power stage really did warm up the sound a lot. I don't know why you can't seem to buy a simple, cheap EL84 power amp. Seems to be cheaper to buy a whole valve amp and not use most of it. Seems a bit mad.

steveb

Megii said:

Trouble with the MS-3 for me was, if at a gig, I found there was, for e.g. too much feedback on a delay in a patch, then I'd just avoid using it for the gig, because it was too much hassle to change. With the Helix, it's simple stuff - the whole thing is much better for fine tuning sounds in real-world situations where you don't have time to waste. Re the sounds 

Pedal edit mode looks great for this!!! Glad your impressed with it. I really like mine!! Sorry for the thread hijack!!

@gearaddict yeah a cheap tube power amp would be great. Something pedal sized would be ideal!!! Tho i dont know if it would be possible! 

John_A

Although I have said the Magnum is great, it's not as good as a valve power amp, or the fx return on something like a JCA22 which I've also used.  However either of these will colour the sound and you would need to set up dual paths in the Helix, one for direct out to the desk with a cab, and one without the cab for the amp/cab.  This limits where you can place effects, and means the out front sound will be different to what you have on stage unless you mic the stage cab which IMO defeats the object of the Helix.

a FRFR monitor is the way forward IMO, and what I've settled on.

steveb

I will defo try an frfr speaker. Just not sure when!!