Boss pedal adding hiss/noise floor even when off?

skunkwerx

Strange this one. 

My Boss Oc-3 octave pedal is adding hiss to my rig, even when its bypassed or ‘off’. 

For example, I plug my guitar straight into my Katana amp, put the gain all the way up and the volume up a bit and theres a tiny bit of hiss through the amp. Normal stuff. 
All the while my guitars volume is rolled off completely. So I can just hear the hiss. 

Now when I plug my guitar into my effects pedals, then into my amp, with the same amp settings, guitar volume rolled off all the way again, the hiss/noise floor is louder. Even with all 4 effects Off/bypassed. 

My pedals go Ehx big muff green russian pi > boss tu-3 > boss oc-3 > tone city angel wing. 

So I try each pedal on its own. Same routine. 

The boss oc-3 is the noisy one. 
Just by plugging my guitar into the oc-3, then oc-3 to amp, the noise floor/hiss is louder, without even turning the oc-3 on. When I do turn it on, it adds more hiss but I kinda figured that was normal operation for a pedal when its on! 

Its not power supply. I’ve tried it on its own boss psa, with my Strymon zuma, and just by battery power. 

The result is the same every time. 

The inbuilt noise gate in the katana deals with it rather well when I turned it on. 

Just weird, I presume the oc-3 has a noisy buffer or something for it to add hiss even when bypassed! 

ICBM

Yes, sounds like it. I don’t actually like any of the new ‘3’ series pedals (not counting the old DD-3) - they all seem to affect the basic tone far worse than old Boss pedals, since they digitise the dry signal as well as the effect, when they’re on. I hadn’t noticed noise when bypassed, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

richardhomer

I’ve got a small board with three Boss pedals on and have no noise issues when they’re off - even into an amp which is set pretty bright. Sounds like it may have a fault....

skunkwerx

Aye I guess it could be either! 
Might email andertons then, its less than a year old

Johnnyseven

The bass player on my band has used one of these for years, powered by a one spot with a good few other pedals - i've never noticed it being noisy.

skunkwerx

Oops, just checked the date I bought it... over a year, damnit. 

Hmmm. What to do. 

The Tc electronic Nether is apparantly based on the Boss oc-2..
for £49 I wonder if its worth giving it a go.  

richardhomer

skunkwerx said:

Oops, just checked the date I bought it... over a year, damnit. 

Hmmm. What to do. 

The Tc electronic Nether is apparantly based on the Boss oc-2..
for £49 I wonder if its worth giving it a go.  

Isn’t there a 5 year warranty on Boss pedals?

ICBM

skunkwerx said:

The Tc electronic Nether is apparantly based on the Boss oc-2..
for £49 I wonder if its worth giving it a go.  

You'd be much better buying a second hand OC-2.

But as richardhomer says, the warranty on Boss pedals is 5 years, so it should still be covered.

bingefeller

It’s weird a Boss pedal being faulty.  

clarkefan

bingefeller said:

It’s weird a Boss pedal being faulty.  

Not in my experience.  I couldn't count the number of Boss pedals I've owned with myriad faults ranging from intermittent switches to a DD-2 with a max delay time half of what it was supposed to be.  They are not bulletproof

ICBM

It is unusual, but certainly not unknown.

Although given the vast numbers of them there are out there compared to the few that fail, and the relatively fewer numbers of other much more unreliable pedals, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

The most unreliable Boss pedal I've come across (in outright numbers of dead ones) is actually the TU-2, but considering it may be the most numerous pedal ever made that isn't too surprising.

ecc83

According to the spec the pedal has a noise floor (all pots central) of -96dBu. That is truly excellent and close to a good, budget Audio Interface (my Native Instruments KA6 returns a noise floor of just over -100dBFS) . If you take away the 'nominal' output of -20dBu* you still get a signal to noise ratio of -76dB and that is WAY better than Dolby B cassette e.g.

Bottom line, IF the spec can be believed that noise is due to a fault.

*Weird that Boss use dB "yoo" ? Most of the guitar electronics industry use the MUCH more logical dBV.

Dave.

skunkwerx

Lil update. 

Today I tried another Oc-3, and from what I can tell, its exactly the same. 


I guess in most situations you wouldnt run this octave pedal into an amp set on a high gain channel, and therefore wouldnt hear it, or wouldnt hear it so much. It just seems to boost the white noise/ noise floor of the amp, is the best way I can describe it. 

I wonder if a lot of Boss pedals are similar... my Tu-3 tuner doesnt seem to add any noise when bypassed or on. Its as silent as having the guitar plugged straight to amp. The rest of my pedals are true bypass so I guess they are naturally silent when bypassed. 

I do also wonder if ocd or something plays a part with my ‘fault’ finding.. when theres nowt wrong to begin with.. 

ICBM

No, if you’re comparing it to the TU-3 and noticing extra noise from the OC-3 then there is a problem.

I will be trying an OC-3 soon which a friend of mine has just bought, I’ll be sure to check for it!

In front of a high-gain amp is exactly where you might expect to use an octaver...

ecc83

ICBM said:

No, if you’re comparing it to the TU-3 and noticing extra noise from the OC-3 then there is a problem.

I will be trying an OC-3 soon which a friend of mine has just bought, I’ll be sure to check for it!

In front of a high-gain amp is exactly where you might expect to use an octaver...

I think we can assume the noise figure of -96dBu is the BEST that Boss can achieve and is only some 12 microvolts. However, even that feeble signal will produce some increase in audible noise through a high gain system but not enough I would aver to bother anyone ( an NE5532 section configured as a unity gain buffer would deliver about -110dBu but much depends upon the input Z, i.e. the guitar. A bog S TL072 would be about 9dB noisier but even that should not be intrusive. )

ICBM, any chance you can measure some signals when you get hands on?

Dave.

skunkwerx

Ahh the mystery continues then! 

Cheers for all your input so far guys. 

I’ve ruled out power supply, as it does it on batteries too. 

I think my cables are fine, as the same cables with the Boss tu-3 doesnt produce any more noise floor. 

Guitar wise, I’ve tried my esp with active emgs, and a chapman with passive hum-buckers. Same result each time. 

The only thing I havent tried is a different amp.. but I’m not sure it could be an amp issue? Otherwise surely the tu-3 would behave the same..

If it makes any difference, I run it into the front of a Boss Katana 50.. I have no amps with effect loops. 

I mean, if I plug my guitar in direct, turn its volume off completely, and max the amps gain, with the channel and master volume at around 12, and 11 o clock, there is some static/noise floor. Can’t hear it while playing. 

Adding the Oc-3 increases this noise floor when the oc-3 is bypassed, but again when playing its not audible as far as I can tell. 

If I stomp the oc-3 on, the noise floor rises even more. But again I dont think its audible while playing.. the amps set fairly loud though on these settings. 

This rise in noise floor Isnt wildly loud, not enough for me to go ‘wow, somethings not right’, but as I’ve noticed it, its audible enough obviously.. 

Been using the built in noise gate which keeps things silent when not playing, so I’ve only just discovered all this when setting a strymon zuma up, and comparing it to my previous supply set up, where I trned the noise gate off to see if the zuma added any noise over using seperate psa’s for each pedal. 

Really weird.. 

My oc-3 is just over a year old, always used at home.. 

The other oc-3 I tried yesterday was actually brand new too.. so its weird they both behave exactly the same.. 
makes me think its in my setup, but I’m not technological enough to figure it out past what I’ve posted in my fault finding above! 

ICBM

No, from your description it is absolutely a noise issue in the pedal itself, and if two of them do it in exactly the same way it's fairly safe to assume that it's not a 'fault' as such, but a 'characteristic'.

skunkwerx

ICBM said:

No, from your description it is absolutely a noise issue in the pedal itself, and if two of them do it in exactly the same way it's fairly safe to assume that it's not a 'fault' as such, but a 'characteristic'.

Cheers man. That makes me feel better. 

I’m currently wiring everything up and sticking it all to a ‘bit of a different’ to a pedal train board.. pics will follow in a seperate thread, but so far I feel like I’ve joined the elite in having a ‘proper’ board set up haha. 

ecc83

skunkwerx said:

ICBM said:

No, from your description it is absolutely a noise issue in the pedal itself, and if two of them do it in exactly the same way it's fairly safe to assume that it's not a 'fault' as such, but a 'characteristic'.

Cheers man. That makes me feel better. 

I’m currently wiring everything up and sticking it all to a ‘bit of a different’ to a pedal train board.. pics will follow in a seperate thread, but so far I feel like I’ve joined the elite in having a ‘proper’ board set up haha. 

"Anything" you add to an amplifying chain will add noise, even a resistor in certain circumstances!

I think you are going from a baseline 'very little noise' to 'a little bit more noise' and a JUST detectable increase in noise is about 3dB. Since your noise is perhaps more than 'just detectable' it is probably nearer another 4-6dB but since it is not noticeable during actual playing I think it is within acceptable levels?

It is a fact that guitar amp+guitar is a noisy combination. Players who mostly gig tend to be staggered HOW noisy when they try home recording for the first time! This is especially so since for very little outlay you can get a mic/AI setup to run on your PC that is way, way technically better than anything the Beatles had at Abbey Road!

Still would like some numbers tho'but!

Dave.

ICBM

I’ll see what I can do if I get hold of it .