Attenuators

jaymenon

 Most grateful for your perspectives on this issue that has been  very much on my mind lately...

Resistive Attenuators
Apparently not so good...

Reactive Attenuators
THD, TAD Silencer, Sequis, Weber etc

The new breed
Fryette Power Station
Two Notes Torpedo

Sensitivity Adjustable Speakers
Eminence Maverick and Reignmaker

 I’m not too bothered about the ability to re-amplify and make my amp louder (which the two notes and Fryette allow). All I want to do is play my amplifier at a more civilised volume at home (and stay married).

Do the reactive attenuators like the THD and Sequis do that just as well as the Fryette and Two Notes?

DanR

The simple answer is to just spend the money now and get the Fryette and then never worry about your volume again.

John_A

What amp is it?

jaymenon

RedPlate BlackVerb 50W (2 x 6L6 based)

ICBM

Resistive attenuators are not “not so good”. Some of the best are purely resistive.

The “new breed” are not attenuators at all, they are dummy load/re-amp systems. Expensive and unnecessary unless you want to run effects after the amp.

The adjustable-sensitivity speakers won’t really do what you want - there isn’t that much volume reduction, and the tone changes drastically as you turn them down.

If you want to just turn down the amp for home use, you don’t need to make it more complicated or expensive than a normal attenuator - the question is which one.

What amp is it? Some amps work much better with different types of attenuators.

Are you trying to get a fully-cranked sound at low volume, or just to turn down an already fairly low volume setting even further?


(Edit)

jaymenon said:

RedPlate BlackVerb 50W (2 x 6L6 based)

I would start with a THD Hotplate for that. You can find them second hand so you won’t lose much money if you change your mind.

jaymenon

Thanks guys for your prompt replies - my amp is a RedPlate BlackVerb (sort of Dumble derived).

Whilst Dumbles are meant to be played with a relatively clean power amp section, I find that my BlackVerb sounds best once I've got the master volume up to around 5.  With a 100dB speaker - that's crazy loud.  My Eminence Reignmaker does reduce the volume significantly (by 9dB) but even then it's a bit too loud...

...and therefore thinking about an attenuator (in addition to the Reignmaker) on the basis that if I attenuate by a further 6-10dB, I'd have effectively 15-20dB of attenuation, win might be all I need.

There again, I can't help but wonder if the 'niceness' of the sound when cranked up is partly due to the sheer volume itself?

ICBM

jaymenon said:

There again, I can't help but wonder if the 'niceness' of the sound when cranked up is partly due to the sheer volume itself?

Partly, but if you’re already using the Reignmaker then that tends to indicate it’s more to do with the amp.

If the sound you like kicks in at about 5 on the master volume, that sounds likely to be power stage compression (even if not actual overdrive) starting. If so, then an attenuator is definitely what you need.

In fact, with both a master volume before and an adjustable sensitivity speaker afterwards you’ve got a lot of control, so you should be able to balance all three to get what you want at the right volume.

jaymenon

Thanks ICBM - but which attenuator would you recommend?

ICBM

jaymenon said:

Thanks ICBM - but which attenuator would you recommend?

Sorry, I edited the post above - the THD Hotplate would be a good place to start. 'Fender type' power stages seem to work well with it and it has a couple of tone switches which help to restore the high and low end which often suffers at quieter volume levels.

Wazmeister

DanR said:

The simple answer is to just spend the money now and get the Fryette and then never worry about your volume again.

The absolute truth.

Heads and shoulders above all iVe tries personally.

Wazmeister

The Redplate should give nice harmonic sounds with both volume set at 3... also, low volumes with the tone stack overriden may help.

The Fryette PS, and I know I continually bang on about it, will get your amp cookin and feelin where you want it to be.

An incredible device.

zepp76

Not cheap but the Rivera Rockcrusher is a fantastic attenuator, check them out on YouTube if you want to see how well they work. I use mine with my JTM45 and it allows me to drive the amp at neighbour friendly volumes.

Nomad

ICBM said:

Resistive attenuators are not “not so good”. Some of the best are purely resistive.

Any worth looking at in particular? I've been kinda musing on trying one of these things with my Blues Deluxe, but have no idea which ones are decent, or not. I see Thomann do a Harley Benton one for about £90, and a Jet City for about £115, both of which appear to be resistive and have the same controls (so presumably the same basic unit inside). My main interest is in turning down the amp's output signal to home levels, and being able to continuously vary the attenuated signal.

Are these cheaper ones any good, or are the better resistive ones still in the price range of reactive types?

ICBM

The cheap ones work just as well as the expensive ones, but you need to be more careful about the power ratings.

Whether they do work well is more dependent on the amp - resistance is resistance, there’s no magic formula to it.

The attenuator matters less if you’re turning down an already quiet (clean or MV limited) amp than it does with a cranked amp, where the power amp dynamics need to not be affected if possible - that’s what causes that ‘strangled’ sound.

Nomad

I currently have the amp volumes set to what I call 'Saturday afternoon' levels, and use a volume pedal in the loop as a master volume, so the power amp is never pushed and the volume is easily manageable. I'm interested in an attenuator specifically to get the power stage compressing and overdriving, mainly because I'm curious to find out how it sounds when cranked (so would prefer to not spend lots of money).

When you say there are good resistive attenuators, do you mean for clean amps? Do I need to go to a reactive one if I want to have the power stage getting pushed?

SunDevil

This all depends on what you want to do with it?

To knock the volume down for small gigs, a resistive attenuator will be just fine, but for playing at home levels, they will tend to squash the bass and treble - in fact I'd go further and say that for knocking off 3-6 dB, these can give you a tone very true to the original.

The Power Station is great (I have more than one) but it's not my default go to attenuator for a 6L6 amp that I'm going to run into overdrive - for my tastes, the Rock Crusher does a better job with these

andy1839

zepp76 said:

Not cheap but the Rivera Rockcrusher is a fantastic attenuator, check them out on YouTube if you want to see how well they work. I use mine with my JTM45 and it allows me to drive the amp at neighbour friendly volumes.

I've had a Rockcrusher for a few years, used it with Budda, Friedman, Fender, Marshall and Matchless without any issues. 

Very happy with the results.  Big unit though. 

jaymenon

SunDevil said:

...for knocking off 3-6 dB, these can give you a tone very true to the original.

I would point out that something like the Maverick or Reignmaker would knock off 9dB. And I can confirm from personal experience that they do so beautifully, with very little (barely perceptible) alteration to the tone.  The tone is perhaps a little warmer which fits in nicely with the output valve saturation that we all love.

To my mind therefore an attenuator needs to do considerably more than that - and that too transparently - to be even worth considering. I would want at least 15dB worth of good quality attenuation from anything that I spend (further) money on

SunDevil

All attenuators will compromise the tone of your amp to some extent

They are really intended to provide a solution for non-MV amps, so you might be best placed to play with the amp’s Master Volume and EQ to find a tone you like? ..or buy an amp that’s more suited to home playing and save the 50 water for gigging?

jaymenon

 I completely agree Baz -  but without going to extremes on the attenuation,  surely some models do a better job than others?

SunDevil

I’ve tried many of them - Not much more I can add to the recommendations above!