Player Grade Vintage Guitars, year in review.

Sassafras

They're all really lovely, and I don't even like Gibsons.

GuyR

As Bridgehouse says, PLEASE don't start restoring basses.

guitars4you

very nice eye candy there - with your skill factor you are certainly creating interest in such projects - total credit to you @jumping@shadows - Hope it continues to go well - And no related 'is it original' issues to attend to 

jumping@shadows

Thanks @guitars4you!  

guitars4you

jumping@shadows said:

Thanks @guitars4you!  

If I ever get near the Anglia area I'm going to have to nip in for a chat and an envious look at your projects

algroves1

Wow!!!

IvisonGuitars

Schnozz said:

Bridgehouse said:

This thread needs a bloody health warning on it!

+1

Ah, nice to see a comment from @Schnozz that doesnt mention David Pym’s spunk....

Great work @jumping@shadows!

jumping@shadows

Here’s the latest going out- ‘59 ES225 and ‘56/59 Burst conversion  

Phil_aka_Pip

wowsers to the power of wow

p90fool

I know you're not wrecking pristine guitars to do these Les Paul conversions, but doesn't anyone ever ask you to restore pre-57 guitars instead of converting them?

It pains me to see all these 1950s P90 Goldtops turned into yet more fake "bursts". 

Not a criticism of your work btw, it just strikes me as sad that a restored real '56 is probably worth less than turning it into a fake '59. 

impmann

p90fool said:

I know you're not wrecking pristine guitars to do these Les Paul conversions, but doesn't anyone ever ask you to restore pre-57 guitars instead of converting them?

It pains me to see all these 1950s P90 Goldtops turned into yet more fake "bursts". 

Not a criticism of your work btw, it just strikes me as sad that a restored real '56 is probably worth less than turning it into a fake '59. 

I feel similarly... I wear my Burst hatred on my sleeve (sorry, can't stand them) and have always favoured P90 equipped Goldtops, so I too find it very sad.

I too am not knocking your work - it looks first rate, and far better than anything I could achieve.

Bucket

jumping@shadows said:

1980 Greco refinish and flame veneer retop.

Jesus H. Christ on a motorbike.

jumping@shadows

@p90fool @impmann I would of course restore to stock specs if asked by a client, but I’ve never been asked :-) 
The ‘pecking order’ of vintage Les Pauls is well established with Bursts firmly at the top, and what I do reflects that demand with those who might otherwise spend their funds on clunky, plasticky and inaccurate True Historic ‘58-‘60 reissues choosing to buy a genuine ‘50s Les Paul with completely authentic looks, sound and feel instead  
Also, from a purely logical stance, if you wanted a vintage P90 Goldtop you could just go and buy one with some planning and diligence, while for the vast majority a real PAF Les Paul is way out of budget, and as my all guitars are thoroughly ‘pre buggered’, any sadness should be reserved for that initial trauma rather than my resurrection decades later :-)

Skipped

p90fool said:

I know you're not wrecking pristine guitars to do these Les Paul conversions, but doesn't anyone ever ask you to restore pre-57 guitars instead of converting them?

It pains me to see all these 1950s P90 Goldtops turned into yet more fake "bursts".

The question was (obviously) not put to me.
But I hope you will forgive me if I respond as one of very few Conversion owners here.

It is not a fake 'Burst. It is a Conversion.
Among members of LPF there are several 'Burst owners who also own a Conversion. I very much doubt that they walk into a small gig saying "I've brought my Fake 'Burst".

A 'Burst is a 50s Gibson Les Paul with Humbucker routes and PAF pickups.
And so is a Conversion.
It is "the same guitar".
Why would it not be?
The 'Burst owners on LPF say that their Conversions give 99% of what their 'Bursts offer.
Multliple 'Burst owner Tom Wittrock says that his Conversion is his favourite guitar.
Dave Johnson and Scott Lentz are very talented. I am sure that  jumping@shadows is too.
 If you put them in a time machine and transported them to Kalamazoo, they would be hired to build 50s Les Pauls.


The colour is not important.
Anyone that thinks a Conversion owner has ever handed over big money to buy a colour has never owned a Conversion.
I would have still have  bought my Conversion if it was Gold Top. Or stripped finish. The only way I can prove that to you is by stripping the finish on my Conversion.
Never say never.

I hope that jumping@shadows has a Conversion lined up which is gold top. Aged gold top is tricky to get right but I am sure he can do it.
 If people are fighting to buy the finished guitar....that might make a point about  the motivation to buy a Conversion. We may then be discussing why someone wants a Humbucker Les Paul and not a P90 Les Paul.
Thousands of original trapeze gold tops (the most common Conversion candidate) are safe with both collectors and players and are in no danger whatsoever since Joe Glaser came up with his non invasive tailpiece mod.

All of Les Paul's personal working guitars were heavily modified 50's Les Pauls.
They were all "Conversions".

Finally.....until recently I had only seen Fake 'Burst (for Conversion) used on LPF AND MLPF. I realised that the term was being chucked out by the Replica owners.
Funny. 

Just giving my point of view.

skaguitar

jumping@shadows said:

@p90fool @impmann I would of course restore to stock specs if asked by a client, but I’ve never been asked :-) 
The ‘pecking order’ of vintage Les Pauls is well established with Bursts firmly at the top, and what I do reflects that demand with those who might otherwise spend their funds on clunky, plasticky and inaccurate True Historic ‘58-‘60 reissues choosing to buy a genuine ‘50s Les Paul with completely authentic looks, sound and feel instead  
Also, from a purely logical stance, if you wanted a vintage P90 Goldtop you could just go and buy one with some planning and diligence, while for the vast majority a real PAF Les Paul is way out of budget, and as my all guitars are thoroughly ‘pre buggered’, any sadness should be reserved for that initial trauma rather than my resurrection decades later :-)

I'm interested to know ..do clients bring guitars to you to convert or do you choose the candidates.? I very nearly sent an R8 I had to Kim at Historic Makeovers but in the end I didn't because he couldn't do anything on the CITES paperwork for the Braz boards they supply and fit.
If the clients bring guitars to you have you ever had a dog... we all know old doesn't mean good...just the same as there are some great R series guitars out there and they're not all 'clunky' .. and do you advise the client that it's not a great guitar to start with ( in your opinion of course ) and that converting it won't necessarily turn it into a great guitar..? Or would you say that your conversions turn ordinary guitars into great guitars..?  Do you offer a similar service to Historic Makeovers where you will age and improve modern guitars or is it all conversions you do.
I suppose my question is does your work only improve the look and feel of the guitar or does it improve the tone as well. 

jumping@shadows

@skaguitar What I do isn’t just cosmetic no- I literally strip the guitar and rebuild from the ground up and tweak/replace anything that’s required to get the ultimate response, as well as refinish in such a manner that it looks and feels like a genuine ‘50s guitar.

A good current example is a ‘53 conversion I’m working on which has had a neck shave, severe headstock oversanding and multiple refins leaving the top rather flat.
The owner wants is a ‘59 spec flame top with chunkier neck so I’ve added a 2mm Mahogany shim under the board with tapered binding to add some extra width, and will be veneering the top after an extensive recarve to really accent the curves. 
From there I’ll rebuild the headstock to correct ‘50s profile and raise the logo as per late ‘50s, then set about refinishing to a greened/honey sunburst with light ageing. 

All hardware choices will be made according to the desired sound- so SS bridge posts if it’s not snappy enough, steel/brass saddles again to tweak clarity/brightness, the pot values chosen for maximum clarity in the neck position or even attenuate treble in the bridge; I’ll select PAFs for clarity and articulation for the neck/fatness and midrange at the bridge with appropriate magnet swaps etc, to build a coherent and unified instrument, where every aspect is optimised, far beyond anything else I’ve encountered elsewhere imho.

I do refinish modern ‘R’ series guitars too, yes, and have told owners I didn’t think it was worth the expense and bother, but executed the task to the best of my abilities regardless   

If you’re able to totally rebuild/hone a guitar with focus and experience then you’ll end up with a superior end result, and I’ve not had anything that wasn’t a stellar guitar on completion, regardless of how lowly the starting point. 

skaguitar

@jumping@shadows ; so do you choose the candidates, are they brought to you by your customers or is it a mix of both..?

I'm slightly confused as to why you would tell owners of R series guitars that you didn't think it was worth the expense and bother if you've not had anything that wasn't a stellar guitar on completion...surely it is worth the expense and bother then..?

How do you choose the pick ups to go into these guitars... because from what I've read it's the original PAF's that really set late 50's gibsons apart... are they modern pick ups you put in and how do you choose them for each particular guitar..?

You clearly do very good work but these questions have been bugging me..

jumping@shadows

I do a number of my own guitars which I source, and also have some brought to me, but as I’m a one man band and have so much work on, I really only work on guitars that excite me, so turn down a good percentage  

Re the reissues- they just don’t excite me at all- when you’ve spent 20 odd years around originals, all I can see is the shortcomings, and yes while they are greatly improved with a proper nitro finish, and expert set up/tweaks, I still would not personally bother- rather take that £4500-£7500 and buy a tatty ‘64 SG Std, ‘50s LP Special or ‘67/‘69 Goldtop/Custom and get the genuine article with all the sonic and aesthetic treasure they offer.

As for choosing pickups, I select them by tone in the guitar itself- some are inherently bright so benefit from a higher resistance and darker magnet choice, or may have a softer midrange so the reverse would work, so while all are in the spectrum PAFs occupied, they’re not just randomly fitted with no concern for performance as they have been since introduced in ‘57. 

skaguitar

@jumping@shadows ; thanks for your concise answers

Skipped

Tom Wittrock has a view which is relevant to the comments/questions about the merits of a Conversion candidate.
Some will think that his comment helps the discussion and some will feel irritation.
That is how it works when the topic is (slightly) controversial.  

Here is what he said.

Posting on LPF he said that, in his opinion the earliest Gibson Les Pauls.......the earliest Gold Tops......had the best sounding wood.