Fretboard radius

2003amxl

As far as getting a nice low action is concerned is there that much of a difference between 12" and something like 17"+?

I was just looking at some vigier guitars which are famed for their action and they all seem to have a 11.8" radius.

Elwood

No, I think it's in the feel rather than the action. On a really flat fretboard there is very little relative height change between strings. You could have the same action setup on a 7.25" as a 17" but the smaller radius would make a noticeable difference in height if you moved from the Low E to D, for example. 

2003amxl

Not sure about that, you can't set the action too low on the old low radius strat necks since the notes will choke out when you bend. I'm just wondering if diminishing returns kick in at some point.

SunDevil

You can definitely go lower with a longer radius - for example Fender stock relief and action heights drop as their fretboard radii increase

I believe this is as a flatter board is less prone to choking bends.

Winny_Pooh

12 & 17 will be less of a difference in action between 7.5 & 12. 

TheMarlin

I prefer 12”’ radius.  I recently acquired a Hagstrom Super Suede 3xP90 with a 15” radius neck.  I can feel the difference.  its taking a while to acclimatise. But, that could be due to its fuller Gibson style neck but with a Fender scale. It’s heavy too (mahogany with carved maple cap and Tremar/Bigsby.  I find heavier guitars are more difficult to play seated.   Lots of things influencing my perception of how it plays. 

thegummy

2003amxl said:

Not sure about that, you can't set the action too low on the old low radius strat necks since the notes will choke out when you bend. I'm just wondering if diminishing returns kick in at some point.

Can see what you're asking; I can't think of any reason a flat fretboard would require a higher action than, say, a 16 inch but I don't know the answer.

guitarmangler

In feel between 12" and 17" ? Not as much as you'd think, but it depends on how you play, and who makes the guitar.

Some makers add fall away into the fingerboard ( you can get a PRS to have super low action without it choking in bends and they have 10" radius, but try that with a Fender) so you can't always compare specs like for like.

I have a few guitars with a 20" radius, and when jumping from the A string to the B string it's nice to not have go over a hill, but my ce24 with the 10" plays just as well.

I would like to try the Shawn Lane Viger without a radius , tho. 

Collings

Yes in theory I think there is a link between fretboard radius and action. Guitars with a smaller fretboard radius tend to fret out on big strings bends easier.

WezV

Slightly flatter than fretboard radius is optimal, with it skewed slightly higher on the bass side.  This is due to string thickness and action height

the overal action needs to be higher on a tighter radius for bends, but this is seperate to the point in the first paragraph

2003amxl

guitarmangler said:

In feel between 12" and 17" ? Not as much as you'd think, but it depends on how you play, and who makes the guitar.

Some makers add fall away into the fingerboard ( you can get a PRS to have super low action without it choking in bends and they have 10" radius, but try that with a Fender) so you can't always compare specs like for like.

I have a few guitars with a 20" radius, and when jumping from the A string to the B string it's nice to not have go over a hill, but my ce24 with the 10" plays just as well.

I would like to try the Shawn Lane Viger without a radius , tho. 

I've read posts by people with prs guitars saying how low the action is with 10" necks compared to other guitars, this just confused me more. 

Roland

There’s a lot of rubbish posted on the internet. PRS’ tend to have low actions because they are well designed and built.

The key point here is @Collings’. If the radius is too small then bends on the higher frets will choke. The exact numbers depend on geometry: the radius, how high on the string you’re bending, how far you’re bending, and how high the action is.

On the other hand some people find it harder to hold down chords on flatter fret boards. There are guitars which use compound radius, eg 9.5” at the nut and 12” at the 12th fret, to get the best of both worlds.

2003amxl

Roland said:

There’s a lot of rubbish posted on the internet. PRS’ tend to have low actions because they are well designed and built.

The key point here is @Collings’. If the radius is too small then bends on the higher frets will choke. The exact numbers depend on geometry: the radius, how high on the string you’re bending, how far you’re bending, and how high the action is.

On the other hand some people find it harder to hold down chords on flatter fret boards. There are guitars which use compound radius, eg 9.5” at the nut and 12” at the 12th fret, to get the best of both worlds.

Thanks for the info.

I've read that you can get a 1.5mm action on the high e at the 12th fret on a vintage 7.25" radius neck so i presume on a 12" radius vigier you could get it lower.

It's a bit of a pain trying to find a high radius neck guitar with stainless steel frets and a 2 post non locking trem. Seems to be either expensive boutique guitars or kiesel/warmouth customs. None of them cheap!

Elwood

@2003amxl Some of the new 2018 Ibanez models, AX, have exactly that spec. Not sure on price, unlikely to be cheap but should not be Suhr pricing levels.

Bridgehouse

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I can get 1.5mm at the 17th on my P bass - it has a vintage 7.5mm radius board.. 

flying_pie

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I'm guessing you won't do lots of bends with your bass. That would be the factor making the biggest difference 

richardhomer

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I can get 1.5mm at the 17th on my P bass - it has a vintage 7.5mm radius board.. 

How far do you bend them?

Bridgehouse

flying_pie said:

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I'm guessing you won't do lots of bends with your bass. That would be the factor making the biggest difference 

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I can get 1.5mm at the 17th on my P bass - it has a vintage 7.5mm radius board.. 

How far do you bend them?

Funnily enough, though not bends as such, I do use quite a bit of vibrato further up the neck - and I'd say it's a fair distance either way to get a noticeable effect

Wolfetone

You can go as low as you like with any radius but don't expect to do any serious bending with a small radius. That's why compounds are awesome. 

flying_pie

Bridgehouse said:

flying_pie said:

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I'm guessing you won't do lots of bends with your bass. That would be the factor making the biggest difference 

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:

Is there a reason why bass strings being thicker don't seem to make a difference?

I can get 1.5mm at the 17th on my P bass - it has a vintage 7.5mm radius board.. 

How far do you bend them?

Funnily enough, though not bends as such, I do use quite a bit of vibrato further up the neck - and I'd say it's a fair distance either way to get a noticeable effect

Perhaps. But that's not quite the same as playing the bends in the solo to Another Brick In The Wall Pt 2

Bridgehouse

flying_pie said:

Perhaps. But that's not quite the same as playing the bends in the solo to Another Brick In The Wall Pt 2

Indeed. But my original comment was more the reference to 1.5mm at the high E, and a bit higher at the other end.

I doubt many bend their low Es that regularly, so the action height is about fret rattle. With a low E around .46, it's the same as the high G on a bass (.45 typically) 

I can happily have a 105 E on most of my basses sitting at 1.5mm action and have practically no buzz. 

Bending aside, the lower strings often have a slightly higher action to cope with buzz. I'm thinking it's more to do with the right hand technique and how much a string vibrates on guitar compared to bass.