Different Hz tunings

Lestratcaster

Does anyone regularly use non 440Hz standard/different tunings when they play?

I have recently been doing a few songs as a tutor that haven't been in standard "concert pitch" whatever you call it, Coldplay's "In My Place" is actually in 432Hz, and for years I never understood why certain Oasis songs "Don't Look Back In Anger" "Married With Children" and "Some Might Say" my guitar was not in tune with the recording. Only since a few years back I discovered they're in 455Hz and 430Hz.

What is the effect of having a lower or higher Hz? I read somewhere 432Hz is more pleasant to listen to. Also as the older Oasis albums were heavily compressed when mixed it could have affected the Hz in some way.

Phil_aka_Pip

I don't think compression would alter the tuning.

A440 was fixed in (I think) 1939. Prior to that there was no international standard. Higher than 440 => tighter string tension and higher pitch, lower => the other way round. Many Baroque ensembles use A415, partially for historical accuracy, partially out of kindness to old instruments.

TheBigDipper

I don't, but I'm open-minded as to what sounds nicer. I believe one of the reasons Russian orchestras can sound a little different is because they don't tune to A=440Hz. 

Historically, some older recordings are at different tunings because the musicians tuned to A=440Hz but the engineer changed the tape speed slightly (either by mistake or deliberately to make the song sound better). 

I can feel us starting to enter the wormhole....  :-) 

guitarfishbay

The Coldplay albums were tuned to the piano they were using IIRC.  If I'm correct Chris Martin loved the sound of the piano and didn't want to change anything about it, so everything was tuned against it.

You'll find some songs that were recorded alongside instruments that aren't able to be, or aren't easy to retune, are tuned to whatever that instrument was tuned to.  

A=440hz is the standard for guitar, and for many concert orchestras but not all.  Many in Europe tune to 442hz.  Some orchestras tune to 443hz as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#19th-_and_20th-century_standards

Compression won't affect pitch, but as noted speed will.

Lestratcaster

Ah, was wondering why Definitely Maybe and What's The Story Morning Glory sounded odd against a perfectly tuned 440Hz guitar. The use of piano makes sense, just annoying having to retune to 432Hz or whatever just to play along with the recording.

not_the_dj

It's not uncommon for tracks to have their speed altered, and hence pitch (varispeed). That first Oasis album certainly went through a few different mixes according to the Supersonic documentary I watched the other night (still on the iplayer). Wouldn't surprise me if that effect was used.

not_the_dj

...after a bit of googling, interesting article here: 

http://recordingyourmusic.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/owen-morris-on-mixing-definitely-maybe.html

"Then I'd compress the overall mix very heavily… more than would normally be considered professional.” I would also varispeed the tape (usually speeding the track up slightly) to a place I felt was exciting."

benmurray85

Yeah most likely varispeed in most cases. Loads of The Beatles tracks were varisped to suit the singer. It’s not wholly relevant but the book “A Revolution In The Head” has some nice info/stories about this sort of stuff

thegummy

The reasons that came to mind for me have already been covered - tape speed or that the band tuned by ear. Doubt many would have been deliberately tuned like that.

I've heard of the whole thing where people think a different tuning sounds better and think it's as daft as conspiracy theories with the similar community and the occasional person stumbling by it, believing they've stumbled upon some rare truth.

digitalscream

There's actually a neat trick here - if you've got a song that you want to sound more mournful than the others on the album, then play all the other tracks at A=440 and that one at A=432. Instantly makes the average non-perfect-pitch listener feel more "down" without realising what's going on.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

There's actually a neat trick here - if you've got a song that you want to sound more mournful than the others on the album, then play all the other tracks at A=440 and that one at A=432. Instantly makes the average non-perfect-pitch listener feel more "down" without realising what's going on.

The opposite can work too.

I actually think I'm naturally drawn to A=442hz.  My only guess is this is due to listening to predominantly classical music until I was 11-12 or so.  But it's just a guess, based on the fact a lot of European orchestras tune to 442hz and the only thing we ever listened to on the radio was Classic FM.

Also, I don't have perfect pitch but I'm very familiar with the tensions of the strings on my guitar.  So I can get my guitar almost in tune from a restring without a tuner, but I'm almost always a bit sharp.  

impmann

digitalscream said:

There's actually a neat trick here - if you've got a song that you want to sound more mournful than the others on the album, then play all the other tracks at A=440 and that one at A=432. Instantly makes the average non-perfect-pitch listener feel more "down" without realising what's going on.

I thought that all you need do is play in D minor, the saddest of all keys... (according to Nigel Tuffnel). ;-)

Funkfingers

digitalscream said:

There's actually a neat trick here - if you've got a song that you want to sound more mournful than the others on the album, then play all the other tracks at A=440 and that one at A=432. Instantly makes the average non-perfect-pitch listener feel more "down" without realising what's going on.

In the edition of Mastertapes originally broadcast on BBC Radio 4 28 & 29/08/17, Randy Newman realises that the studio piano is tuned to A442. He explains that he cannot hear the difference but he can feel it in his throat when trying to pitch his voice.

bingefeller

James Taylor has a really interesting tuning offset.




List of Eddie's offsets.