How low/high should my action be?

GeeJay

Hi guys,

Experimenting with the action on my guitar is not something I've ever done (even via a pro setup) and I was just curious as to the various options.

My very naive / simple view is that low action = faster playing. But what are the other trade offs when having a high or low action in terms of technique, sound etc?

My current action is about 4mm and I'm wondering if that's fine (I don't play slide or anything like that), or if I might be missing out on a nicer playing experience.

Thanks,
Greg

MrBump

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule.  Yngwie (from what I've seen) has a reasonably high action, but seems to play pretty fast.  I know Gary Moore had a high action, and did OK.

The action of my guitars varies - none of which prevents me being shite.

I guess the larger the radius (Ibanez speed machines) makes it easier to achieve a super low, flat action that speed merchants seem to like.

sunshinewelly

4mm is very high - are you sure its that high

however there is no real right or wrong answer - its all about what feels right to you. i assume technically you can play faster if the string is closer to the frets as they have less room to travel, 

on my strat i prefer a slighly higher action to my prs

before starting on the action check the relief of the guitar is correct - there are lots of youtube videos out there

most guitar manufacturers also give their recommended set up heights on their websites

most people would get their action below 2mm on the high E at least (probably closer to 1.6mm.

the bottom E would be slightly higher.

Alnico

Aim for 1.6mm at the 12th fret and go up or down from there.

That's assuming that your guitar will let you.
If not, it'll need some setup work but until you start looking at and measuring all that there's no way to tell.

What guitar is it?

A low action may trade off some punch in the tone of each fretted note and when you get ultra low it'll rattle off other frets just from pick attack.
I got my Jackson Soloist to go down to 0.6mm but you had to play so gently it was a bit too much.
I settled on 1.0mm eventually.

My Ibanez RG is set up on 10's and sits at 1.4mm.
String gauge will have an impact on this too so, on my Strat, I can't have the action so low on 9-46 strings because they get too rattly and snappy whereas without adjusting the action height, I can fit 10-46 and it's fine to the tighter string not flopping about so much.

There are loads of variables but it's fairly straightforward to set a guitar up to play fast with a low, easy action.

GeeJay

Ah I should have said - it's an EBMM Luke 2, with 10-46 strings.

I will try and measure again with another ruler / tape measure but I think it is close to 4mm. Certainly seems well over the 1 - 2mm being touted above so maybe I really should think seriously about adjusting.

Maynehead

4mm is bordering on ridiculously high.

That's assuming you're measuring it correctly, i.e. from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E string.

ESBlonde

There are people that are renowned players with thick strings and high action. There are many more with medium/text book action on modest gauge strings (say 10s) Yet others insist on super thing strings and an action nearly buzzing on the frets acousticly. Each has it's merits and some players like to have something to push/pull against while others like it to be effortless. In theory the amount of pressure required to fret a string is quite low but in the heat of an adrenalin filled stage performance we can get carried away. If the action is too high you might pull the string out of tune freting it. If it's too low you might choke the sustain as you bend it a long way when further up the dusty end of the finger board.
See what you loke and adjust accourdingly. My choice is light strings and low action, but that doesn't suit everyone and every style.

GeeJay

Ah, I was measuring from the wood to the bottom of the low E string! Sorry! But even measuring top of the fret to the string it still seems comfortably 2-3mm

ESBlonde

2.5mm on the bass side at 12 fret is not uncommon, probably even typical. You would probably get about 2mm or less on the treble side but it is subjective etc.

Bridgehouse

GeeJay said:

Ah, I was measuring from the wood to the bottom of the low E string! Sorry! But even measuring top of the fret to the string it still seems comfortably 2-3mm

As you're in London, why don't you contact @FelineGuitars and get him to do a setup on it - you will get the most out of it and you can have it set up to suit your playing style. Money well spent I'd say..

guitars4you

I never actually set-up a guitar using any measuring device - I play it and then adjust and edit until I feel I can achieve the best playing experience - radius, fret size, alone, plus other factors will come into play - Each guitar will be different

The lower you go with a set-up/action, then the more precise the level of your frets will need to be - You end up with zero tolerance regardg string rattle and no where to go, if 1 or 2 frets, or more, are to high or low, even by  a fraction and such issues will not allow the guitar to be set-up as low as possible - I would generally expect something like a PRS to end up with a lower action, then say a vintage flavoured R9 Les Paul - You can almost get by with slight uneven fret height with higher action, more neck relief and heavy strings, certainly with regard to zero tolerance

Certainly no specific answer to this - what gauge of strings you use, how heavy you pick and attack the strings, or indeed stroke the strings - Play with a pick or thumb/fingers - Some players stroke the strings with minimum attack, some are far more heavy

An acoustic guitar will generally be set-up with thicker strings and a higher action so as to obtain more sustain with no string rattle - Yet I know Tommy Emmanuel utilses a shred electric guitar ultra low action and very thing strings, to allow his dexterity within his playing style

My experience with such a guitar as you Luke is that a very low action can be achieved with a good set-up - But that would require very little neck relief - But such a low action would generally suit someone with a light touch

Again some players use so much gain, that with a low action and a hint of string rattle you won't hear it through the amp, so they tolerate it - Whereas someone like SRV and others want as much natural sustain as possible with less gain so don't want any string rattle that will dampen sustain

Again a low action and big hands and you might find bending and vibrato a touch harder - certainly playing life with sweaty fingers

Even if you can't do a full set-up yourself (and it is a skill to get it spot on), it is good if you can make slight edits to any good guitar tech set-up, as you are the only one who knows what you wish to achieve regarding how it feels and plays

Neill

There's no right or wrong, and much depends on what style you play.  Guitarists who do a lot of string bending will prefer a higher action so you can "grab" the string better and also so it won't "choke", but if you're a chord merchant you might want the lowest possible action.

It seems counter intuitive, but you can get a lower action with heavier strings.- Lighter strings vibrate over a wider circle than heavier strings do.  This is one reason why players whose style is mainly rhythm will tend to use much heavier strings - Pete Townsend used monster strings in his early days, only when he started to do more extended solos did he move to a lighter guage.      

Matt_McG

4mm is about where my classical guitar is. Maybe fractionally higher, even. But I'd consider that pretty high for an electric.

My main electric is around 2.5 - 3mm, which I guess is medium+.

Personally, I find it hard to bend smoothly on a lower action with a 9.5inch radius. Not because of bottoming out, or buzz, but because I find it hard to get enough finger 'meat' under the string. I've played guitars with a flatter radius, and lighter strings where a lower action was fine.

N.B. Are you measuring from the top of the metal fret to the underside of the string? or from the wood to the string?

Maynehead

GeeJay said:

Ah, I was measuring from the wood to the bottom of the low E string! Sorry! But even measuring top of the fret to the string it still seems comfortably 2-3mm

2-3mm is not considered low. You can go as low as 1.6mm low E and 1.2mm high E (which is where I like to be) and still have a well playing and well sounding guitar.

However, the lower you go, the better the neck and fretwork needs to be to avoid excessive string buzz. It's often a compromise between excessive string buzz and low action. I say "excessive string buzz" because some string buzz is often unavoidable. Even high action can produce string buzz if you hit your strings hard.

So it's a balancing act of finding a low enough action to make your playing easier and a high enough action so that the string buzz does not become an issue for you.

guitars4you

Neill said:

It seems counter intuitive, but you can get a lower action with heavier strings.- Lighter strings vibrate over a wider circle than heavier strings do.  This is one reason why players whose style is mainly rhythm will tend to use much heavier strings - Pete Townsend used monster strings in his early days, only when he started to do more extended solos did he move to a lighter guage.      

agree with this - I use 10-52 so I can get a lower action on the bass side without string rattle, but the thicker strings don't 'flop' around as much when playing walking bass lines and those SRV style bass lines and shuffle patterns

Another point - I'll often take an action down to the point of buzzing, so assuming no fret issues, and relief is okay, then I know this is the lowest a guitar action can be on this guitar - So now I can take it up, as required, to what I consider works for that guitar - This is assuming I'm doing it for shop stock or for me - If undertaking  any set-up for a customer it is paramount to work with the customer and finding out what they require

FelineGuitars

Take a capo and a purple tortex pick.

Capo at 1st fret

Hold strings down at body join and adjust truss rod till you have a very small gap between 7th fret top and underside of string

The use pick as feeler gauge - set action height at 12th fret so purple pick is just touching underside of string and fret top

Do the same on the treble side, but do it at the 17th fret.

If you  have 6 height adjustable saddles - why not repeat at 13th fret on A, 14th on D, 15th on G, 16th on B

Now use this as your starting point and go either a little up or down to taste

If you are getting a lot of fret buzz you may have underlying issues that may need attention (or you play harder than I do)
You may also have a too high nut if things feel too stiff  on open chords and that may need cutting

rico

@FelineGuitars what would you say a 'small gap' would be? Something in the region of 0.3mm?

GeeJay

Thanks for all this great advice everyone, really appreciate it as always.

NPP

am I right in saying that much depends on how deep the nut is cut? I never could get a useful action on my Strat since some random guy refretted it and fitted a new nut. The nut was simply too low to work with the frets so I had to work with excessive neck angle and relief to get a note out of it at all. 

Some experimentation confirmed that putting a shim under the nut resolves all the problems. (Let's ignore the fact that there are 22 years between the refret and the shim ...)

What I'm trying to suggest is that radical changes in action don't seem to work without a change in nut, and that if your nut is too high or too low you can't put that right by adjusting neck relief, neck angle or saddle height. 

rico

The nut will really only affect open chords...

Bridgehouse

rico said:

The nut will really only affect open chords...

But it can give the impression of higher action on fretted notes, and of course will affect intonation