Floyd Rose problem - ever seen this?

clarkefan

I want to set the Floyd on my Wolfgang Standard to sit on the body, like a Strat . Currently it's about 3mm off the body, and the action is already really low.  If I were to lower the trem to the body the strings would be on the neck.  It's like the neck needs to be lowered.

I've looked into saddle shims but they're wafer thin, I'd need about 20 under each saddle

Any ideas much appreciated!  It's my first experience with a Floyd so I'm not familiar enough with them to understand what's happening

FX_Munkee

Neck shim?

clarkefan

FX_Munkee said:

Neck shim?

Not sure what you mean, wouldn't raising the neck make this worse?  It's like, I need to lower the neck?

DrBob

If you shim at the back of the neck heel to tilt the neck down and effectively bring the string height up does it follow that if you shim the neck at the front of the heel it tilts the neck up and brings the action down ? 

FX_Munkee

You need to shim it at the far end of the heel, ie the furthest point from the body. It will effectively raise the nut higher than the bridge (if everything is laid flat), therefore the bridge can be lowered.
Actually it's more about angles and I'm doing a crap job of explaining it. I recommend googling neck shim

clarkefan

Well that's an interesting idea, tilting the neck the "wrong" way, cool!   Which might mean shimming the nut as well, but I see where you're going!

ICBM

Shimming the neck the wrong way usually makes the guitar feel and play oddly, I wouldn’t do it except as a temporary measure. Check that there isn’t already a normal shim in first though...

If it does need shimming the wrong way, ideally you need to deepen the neck pocket, but this is a job for a professional with the right tools. 

clarkefan

ICBM said:

Shimming the neck the wrong way usually makes the guitar feel and play oddly, I wouldn’t do it except as a temporary measure. Check that there isn’t already a normal shim in first though...

If it does need shimming the wrong way, ideally you need to deepen the neck pocket, but this is a job for a professional with the right tools. 

I was already having similar thoughts.  I was thinking what would a shim like that do to the action at the high end, and maybe having to mess about trying to balance that with the truss rod.

On the other hand, while the neck on the Wolfgang Standard is chunkyish, the pocket the neck sits in is thinner than say a Strat, and that's where the professional would need to thin out at an angle.

Well, baby steps, will look into @FX_Munkee 's idea first. 

FX_Munkee

Actually, thinking about it, have you checked the neck is flat?
One of the bonuses of the Wolfgang is how easy it is to adjust the truss rod. You might be able to add a bit of bow, which would allow you to lower the bridge. Although TBH if it is 3mm too high that's not going to work.

FX_Munkee

clarkefan said:

Well that's an interesting idea, tilting the neck the "wrong" way, cool!   Which might mean shimming the nut as well, but I see where you're going!

You don't need to shim the nut, it only affects the action going away from the nut, which you take care of by lowering the bridge.

FelineGuitars

Weren't the Wolfgangs designed to be down only on the Floyd like EVH has?

If that is the case check there isn't already a shim in the neck joint.

If not then it could be a call to deepen the neck pocket slightly so the trem sits flat to the body with the right action.

Maynehead

Are you sure you want to make the whole plate flush with the body?

I ask because you’ll effectively lose the ability to change your string action. You’ll have to make do with truss rod adjustments and neck shimming only.

The more common ways to set a Floyd to dive only is to tighten the back springs, and either block off the front side of the trem block in the trem cavity, or just let the back edge of the trem sit on the guitar body (the trem bar might sit slightly higher if you do this).

In both cases you can still adjust the action using the bridge screws.

clarkefan

FelineGuitars said:

Weren't the Wolfgangs designed to be down only on the Floyd like EVH has?

If that is the case check there isn't already a shim in the neck joint.

If not then it could be a call to deepen the neck pocket slightly so the trem sits flat to the body with the right action.

Yes, all EVH guitars are set for down only, and thanks I'll check for shims.  I think you're probably right and if I want the Floyd on the body I'm going to need pro help.

clarkefan

Maynehead said:

Are you sure you want to make the whole plate flush with the body?

I ask because you’ll effectively lose the ability to change your string action. You’ll have to make do with truss rod adjustments and neck shimming only.

The more common ways to set a Floyd to dive only is to tighten the back springs, and either block off the front side of the trem block in the trem cavity, or just let the back edge of the trem sit on the guitar body (the trem bar might sit slightly higher if you do this).

In both cases you can still adjust the action using the bridge screws.

Thanks for your thoughts!  I want to at least try having it on the body because of the connection.   Sometimes if I'm playing and a chord is ringing out, if I press on the trem with my finger the sound gets a lot more full, bit like pushing the headstock against say a cupboard.

I think having the Floyd floating doesn't make as good a connection.  It could all possibly make no difference playing with gain but I'd like to know

You make a great point about blocking off the front side of the trem block, I hadn't thought of that  My head says that might improve the connection the way having the trem on the body would, very nice!

FelineGuitars

You might find that having the block of the trem changed for a fat oversized one with more mass will improve your sound too. Whilst there is a tendency towards brass blocks I like the cold rolled steel one that I have on my Floyds

clarkefan

FelineGuitars said:

You might find that having the block of the trem changed for a fat oversized one with more mass will improve your sound too. Whilst there is a tendency towards brass blocks I like the cold rolled steel one that I have on my Floyds

Thanks for the suggestion, can I ask, the steel ones, do you mean the the stock ones or something you purchase separately?

I have in fact switched to a brass block and I think some of the zing went, I've been thinking of switching back to check, but the stock one was puny in comparison (this is a FR Special, I'm guessing you use the full fat Original).

Maynehead

The big brass blocks tend to emphasise the fundamental frequencies whilst the steel and (cheaper) zinc ones have more overtones. I personally prefer the brass because it gives the tone more "beef", while the stock ones sound slightly sharper and fizzy.