Gone back to valves

Keefy

I've been playing valve amps live for over 20 years. In the early 2000s I used a Boss GX700 to model different pre-amps into the FX loop return of a valve combo, but I've definitely had more satisfying sounds since I went back to analog pedals into valve amps.

For recording, digital modelling (in the form of a Zoom pedal) is one of my options.

dindude

Both have their merits, but valve amp and pedals has always given me more pleasure.

I think a lot of it is volume related these days. Lots of play at home guitarists (like me), and gigging volumes have reduced, PA's got better - this has levelled the playing field and made digital a real consideration against a valve amp barely ticking over with a pedal in front.

But whenever you hear a loud amp cranked, it reminds me of why we are all here, and digital is still nowhere near this IMO.

There's a clip on You Tube I was listening to last night of Mike Landau playing an unaccompanied version of Little Wing, he unleashes a fuzz pedal half way through and, if there was a god, this would be his voice, it's an astonishing sound. That sound just can't be had with digital, and also without ear bleeding volume unfortunately.

Dominic

Boutique Valve Amp v Helix v Kemper.............
 Apple v Orange
 Pasta v Pizza
...................The point is that there is no "better" and no categoric yardstick to measure by. They are all good but all DIFFERENT........
 Bad playing, poor timekeeping, fret buzz will be guaranteed to sound crap through all of them !

robinbowes

dindude said:

There's a clip on You Tube I was listening to last night of Mike Landau playing an unaccompanied version of Little Wing, he unleashes a fuzz pedal half way through and, if there was a god, this would be his voice, it's an astonishing sound. That sound just can't be had with digital, and also without ear bleeding volume unfortunately.

I disagree.

In my experience, the fact that something is digitally processed is not relevant. I reckon I could get a sound like that with my rig.

I couldn't play like that though

R.

John_A

crunchman said:

One thing that hasn't been discussed much is what it's like for a member of the audience.  ...............

I've brought that very point up on a few occasions and agree with you 100%

Gadget

John_A said:

crunchman said:

One thing that hasn't been discussed much is what it's like for a member of the audience.  ...............

I've brought that very point up on a few occasions and agree with you 100%

Which is entirely irrelevant for those of us who never have an audience

John_A

Gadget said:

John_A said:

crunchman said:

One thing that hasn't been discussed much is what it's like for a member of the audience.  ...............

I've brought that very point up on a few occasions and agree with you 100%

Which is entirely irrelevant for those of us who never have an audience

Agree and disagree

While playing at home if you are trying to capture the sounds on record what you listen to is Amp->speaker->mic-> desk->post processing, and you listen to it through hi-fi speakers or headphones, you'll get closer to this using modelling technology and be able to do it without annoying anyone if needed.

However if you love the sound of your valve amp & effects at home, don't gig or record then absolutely no reason to change

This applies to live users too, if you are happy then stick with it whatever it is, but for me 'happy' is a combination of a lot of factors

p90fool

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Gadget

John_A said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

crunchman said:

One thing that hasn't been discussed much is what it's like for a member of the audience.  ...............

I've brought that very point up on a few occasions and agree with you 100%

Which is entirely irrelevant for those of us who never have an audience

Agree and disagree

While playing at home if you are trying to capture the sounds on record what you listen to is Amp->speaker->mic-> desk->post processing, and you listen to it through hi-fi speakers or headphones, you'll get closer to this using modelling technology and be able to do it without annoying anyone if needed.

However if you love the sound of your valve amp & effects at home, don't gig or record then absolutely no reason to change

This applies to live users too, if you are happy then stick with it whatever it is, but for me 'happy' is a combination of a lot of factors

That is true. Recording with my Axe FX Ultra / MkII XL was definitely a lot easier and the sounds were indistinguishable from good micing of a live amp, but in the room and for practice it just left me cold.

John_A

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Really?  You must be on another spiritual level to me   Sounding good makes me happier when I'm playing.  but a valve amp doesn't affect my note choice or phrasing

Plectrum

John_A said:

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Really?  You must be on another spiritual level to me   Sounding good makes me happier when I'm playing.  but a valve amp doesn't affect my note choice or phrasing

Same here. What I play is dictated by what I'm feeling at the time not what box my guitar is plugged in to. And I'm far more focused on my vocals than any cork-sniffery of my guitar tone.

Roland

I disagree, but I think it depends on what type of music you’re playing, and what sound you use. I choose to use digital for gigging because of dependability and low stage volumes. It does have an impact on the way I play, but I’m willing to accept that because of the advantages.

Neill

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

I do agree with that, but I would respect anyone who disagrees - I think it depends what sort of guitarist you are.  I wouldn't say I was a wonderful electric guitarist but I am certainly a rubbish acoustic player, I really do rely on electricity so I think that for me the "purer" the relationship, the better.   I suspect those who don't feel the amp makes much different are probably as good on acoustic as electric, there you are guys that's a theory for you to well and truly blow out of the water..

Alfi27

This is a very interesting topic, and having gone from valve to digital and back loads of times I realise more and more that it's highly psychological (at least in my case). To me there is something that isn't quite right about plugging my guitar into a computer, even if it sounds great (which the Kemper definitely does).

The Kemper also has so many options and insane versatility, which can also be an issue; loads of mumbo jumbo that I don't need or will ever use, and even though you obviously don't have to use it all, it kind of feels like constantly driving a Ferrari in 30 mph... I wouldn't call myself a purist, and my signal chain is in no way all analog (guitar -> G10 wireless -> Marshall 1987 -> Torpedo Live), but there is something magical about plugging your guitar directly into a roaring valve amp doing what it's supposed to do, nothing more and nothing less, and your fingers (and maybe some pedals) doing the rest.

Of course, most valve amps are ridiculously big and heavy, need to be driven hard and loud to sound their best, sound slightly different depending on how the planets align, decide to blow at the most inconvenient times etc etc, but even though the cons far outweigh the pros I don't think valve amps will ever die out.

At some point I will probably acquire some sort of digital device (again) because, let's face it, your huge ass Marshall head and 4x12 cab is not the best rig to bring on a fly gig... Throw an Atomic Amplifire in your gig bag and you have a more than decent tone with absolutely no headaches!

Cheers guys, hope I made a half decent first impression 

p90fool

John_A said:

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Really?  You must be on another spiritual level to me   Sounding good makes me happier when I'm playing.  but a valve amp doesn't affect my note choice or phrasing

Haha I'm not on any spiritual level tbh, I'm just a hoodlum with a guitar. 


Do you really not find that a processed, 'finished' guitar tone makes you approach it in a different way to the raw tone of a loud amp? 

John_A

p90fool said:

John_A said:

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Really?  You must be on another spiritual level to me   Sounding good makes me happier when I'm playing.  but a valve amp doesn't affect my note choice or phrasing

Haha I'm not on any spiritual level tbh, I'm just a hoodlum with a guitar. 


Do you really not find that a processed, 'finished' guitar tone makes you approach it in a different way to the raw tone of a loud amp? 

I don't really use a processed tone, to my ears the sound I have coming back through my monitor, is pretty much the same as it was when I was using a JTM54 and pedalboard.  At home it's more controlled, but in the same ballpark, and don't think it changes the way I play at all.

ICBM

timmysoft said:

Voxman said:

This is the Vox Valvetronix AD30VT. It was the first budget version of the Valvetronix range when the 'Blues' were discontinued i.e. the most basic of all the Valvetronix amps. 

You really think this sounds shit @timmysoft ? ;

[Vox Valvetronix AD30VT]

That sounds horrible, especially the high gain, which sounds like a cheap distortion pedal into a practice amp.

I've just acquired an AD15VT which is the little 1x8" version of the same thing...

It certainly doesn't sound great for high-gain sounds, but it does sound pretty good for clean and light-breakup sounds if you take the time to dial it in properly.

But like I find with all this sort of thing, it definitely is quite easy to make it sound terrible - the way the controls interact with the sound is somehow just not 'natural' like it is with a valve amp, and it's easier to make bad sounds than good ones rather than the other way round.

Jonathanthomas83

John_A said:

p90fool said:

John_A said:

p90fool said:

There's a big difference between having a dynamic, naturally responding valve amp sound post processed at FOH to sit better in a band mix and actually playing the guitar with that post processed sound at source. 

It makes you hit the strings differently, and make different note and phrasing choices.  

Really?  You must be on another spiritual level to me   Sounding good makes me happier when I'm playing.  but a valve amp doesn't affect my note choice or phrasing

Haha I'm not on any spiritual level tbh, I'm just a hoodlum with a guitar. 


Do you really not find that a processed, 'finished' guitar tone makes you approach it in a different way to the raw tone of a loud amp? 

I don't really use a processed tone, to my ears the sound I have coming back through my monitor, is pretty much the same as it was when I was using a JTM54 and pedalboard.  At home it's more controlled, but in the same ballpark, and don't think it changes the way I play at all.

Agree with this. I don’t find it alters the way I play either.

Freebird

If I could get 100 assorted pedals and 10 valve amps (including microphones) for £1500, I would be all-in with the analogue gear. As my main focus is recording, I have to make do with the digital stuff and the bang for the buck it offers. (FX8 & Kemper).

p90fool

What are you recording that requires 10 valve amps and 100 pedals?
Are you in Led Zeppelin?