NPD Pork Loin stacking volume issue

ftumch

My first post for a while.
I picked up a used Pork Loin at Andertons this last weekend, after a quick play with it in the shop i really liked it just as a base tone/more pedal. Drive all the way down and volume way up, really sensitive to attack and chimey.
Ive been trying to find a place for it on my board, currently i have
Tc spark - into
Mi audio Blues pro -into
Marvel drive.
I want to keep the Marvel drive as i use it most, just through a clean channel.
Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. 
Great cleans from the pork loin and it adds a nicer eq to the marvel which was a bit lacking.
The issue i have is this, ive always found that the drive pedal last in the chain controls the overall volume but when i switch the marvel on (which is set at unity) the volume increases dramatically, too much. I can turn the volume down on the marvel so i get a useable volume with the pork loin on with the marvel but i then cant use the marvel independantly cos its now too quiet to use with the pork loin off.

Is that confusing?
Why is it behaving this way? Id really love to keep both, what am i doing wrong, i just cant seem to balance the volumes.

Thanks

Kebabkid

I have several pedals going up in gain structure and I stack various combinations of them. There are some similarities with yours and so I don't know if this will work but can I suggest trying the Spark Boost 2nd in the chain - it'll push the Marvel in a nice way but you shouldn't get volume anomolies. Well, I don't.
As to my Pork Loin at the end of that chain, I have it on a low gain, chimey, Tom Petty/Stones sound:-

Keeley 808 > Xotic EP Boost > Fulltone OCD > Pork Loin

It's worth a try

Sassafras

I'd try the Marvel last in the chain.

Kebabkid

Sassafras said:

I'd try the Marvel last in the chain.

Yep. Build up in gain

ftumch

Thanks. Ill try and move them around again, i dont intend keeping all four od's on my board, one can go. I definately prefered the marvel into the PL so thats a bit annoying. I could just leave the PL on all the time and then its not really an issue, i just like having different options.

smudge_lad

You've said in your post:

"Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. "

I'm confused, as to me those two sentences describe exactly the same setup/order, unless I'm completely missing something?

If I'm using a pedal as a base tone, then it always goes first in my chain. I think of it as an extension of the tone that's coming out of my guitar.

Other people will use a base tone pedal as if it were their chosen amp channel/setting, which is in theory would be considered "last" in your chain after any/all FX.

Both will react totally differently with other pedals in the chain. There's always the dilemma of choosing what you think is the ideal location, and then the brain fart's begin - "oooh, that pedal/tone would be great if another pedal was pushing it" and you try to adjust the running order and get it sounding great, but ultimately there ends up being another link in the chain that doesn't quite fit/work and you then rip apart your whole pedal-board and decide a fresh start is best, and spend the next 6 months looking in the classifieds for all the new stuff you think will solve all of your problems

ftumch

smudge_lad said:

You've said in your post:

"Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. "

I'm confused, as to me those two sentences describe exactly the same setup/order, unless I'm completely missing something?

If I'm using a pedal as a base tone, then it always goes first in my chain. I think of it as an extension of the tone that's coming out of my guitar.

Other people will use a base tone pedal as if it were their chosen amp channel/setting, which is in theory would be considered "last" in your chain after any/all FX.

Yeah sorry thats my error, the PL before the marvel was messy. The PL after sounded great but i just cant get the volumes to balance.
Ive been on the OD pedal merry go round for a long time, not really come across this before though.
Am i right in saying that the last pedal would dictate the overall eq of the tone? 

smudge_lad

ftumch said:

smudge_lad said:

You've said in your post:

"Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. "

I'm confused, as to me those two sentences describe exactly the same setup/order, unless I'm completely missing something?

If I'm using a pedal as a base tone, then it always goes first in my chain. I think of it as an extension of the tone that's coming out of my guitar.

Other people will use a base tone pedal as if it were their chosen amp channel/setting, which is in theory would be considered "last" in your chain after any/all FX.

Yeah sorry thats my error, the PL before the marvel was messy. The PL after sounded great but i just cant get the volumes to balance.
Ive been on the OD pedal merry go round for a long time, not really come across this before though.
Am i right in saying that the last pedal would dictate the overall eq of the tone? 

I don't think it will dictate as much as it will dictate the volume level. It will still have a profound effect.

Lets say you have the PL last, and set up as you like it and it has +2db of bass in the EQ. If you then had +5db of bass on the Marvel and this also sounded ace on it's own, and you then throw that into the PL, the PL won't remove/compensate for this extra +3db of bass. It'll still be present in the overall EQ somewhere, I believe. This will be more noticeable with less headroom on the PL.

The only way you'd get around the above is if you have a pedal that has an active EQ last in the chain, but again, your issue is going to be that the may sound good when stacked, but not so good when played on their own.

This is why so many people find it hard to find pedals that stack well together

ftumch

smudge_lad said:

ftumch said:

smudge_lad said:

You've said in your post:

"Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. "

I'm confused, as to me those two sentences describe exactly the same setup/order, unless I'm completely missing something?

If I'm using a pedal as a base tone, then it always goes first in my chain. I think of it as an extension of the tone that's coming out of my guitar.

Other people will use a base tone pedal as if it were their chosen amp channel/setting, which is in theory would be considered "last" in your chain after any/all FX.

Yeah sorry thats my error, the PL before the marvel was messy. The PL after sounded great but i just cant get the volumes to balance.
Ive been on the OD pedal merry go round for a long time, not really come across this before though.
Am i right in saying that the last pedal would dictate the overall eq of the tone? 

I don't think it will dictate as much as it will dictate the volume level. It will still have a profound effect.

Lets say you have the PL last, and set up as you like it and it has +2db of bass in the EQ. If you then had +5db of bass on the Marvel and this also sounded ace on it's own, and you then throw that into the PL, the PL won't remove/compensate for this extra +3db of bass. It'll still be present in the overall EQ somewhere, I believe. This will be more noticeable with less headroom on the PL.

The only way you'd get around the above is if you have a pedal that has an active EQ last in the chain, but again, your issue is going to be that the may sound good when stacked, but not so good when played on their own.

This is why so many people find it hard to find pedals that stack well together

This has always true in my experience, the volume of the last drive pedal in the chain will dictate the overall volume. But its not at all the case here with the Pl which is the issue and why im confused.

smudge_lad

ftumch said:

smudge_lad said:

ftumch said:

smudge_lad said:

You've said in your post:

"Putting the marvel before the pork loin yeilded a really boomy and fuzzy mess, not nice. 
I put the pork loin last in the chain after the marvel and its great, really great tones. "

I'm confused, as to me those two sentences describe exactly the same setup/order, unless I'm completely missing something?

If I'm using a pedal as a base tone, then it always goes first in my chain. I think of it as an extension of the tone that's coming out of my guitar.

Other people will use a base tone pedal as if it were their chosen amp channel/setting, which is in theory would be considered "last" in your chain after any/all FX.

Yeah sorry thats my error, the PL before the marvel was messy. The PL after sounded great but i just cant get the volumes to balance.
Ive been on the OD pedal merry go round for a long time, not really come across this before though.
Am i right in saying that the last pedal would dictate the overall eq of the tone? 

I don't think it will dictate as much as it will dictate the volume level. It will still have a profound effect.

Lets say you have the PL last, and set up as you like it and it has +2db of bass in the EQ. If you then had +5db of bass on the Marvel and this also sounded ace on it's own, and you then throw that into the PL, the PL won't remove/compensate for this extra +3db of bass. It'll still be present in the overall EQ somewhere, I believe. This will be more noticeable with less headroom on the PL.

The only way you'd get around the above is if you have a pedal that has an active EQ last in the chain, but again, your issue is going to be that the may sound good when stacked, but not so good when played on their own.

This is why so many people find it hard to find pedals that stack well together

This has always true in my experience, the volume of the last drive pedal in the chain will dictate the overall volume. But its not at all the case here with the Pl which is the issue and why im confused

it will likely be because of the way you have the volume/gain set up - no gain + high volume = high headroom/very little clipping on the pedal

Kebabkid

Have you tried different placements yet and any results?

ftumch

I had a fiddle yesterday. So i went
Spark>PL>Marvel
Great result yeah, very happy. Was out gigging with it last night.
The PL adds something to the marvel, a bit more body and chime? Very amplike, think pushed power valves. Kick in the spark for a bit more. Plus the cleans are lovely now, need to try it all through my rivera.

Thanks for all the comments