Builders - Do I need a lintel?

rawk100

I want to remove this window, cut the bricks out underneath down to DPC and fit a small set of patio doors. There's a row of soldier bricks above the window that I want to retain but I'm unsure about what's behind them and if there's an existing linmtel or not. Do i actually need a lintel or are the soldier bricks enough, is there an existing lintel there? I could do with some advice on the best way of doing this please....ta

https://i.imgur.com/GAB59VS.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/1KdvBVp.jpg

Budgie

The soldiers appear to be sitting on the frame. If you look, the bottom of the soldiers is half way up the brick. You will ideally need a lintel. Your only other option is to cut a timber to length to hold the soldiers in place and prop it to stop them dropping but it will make taking the old window out tricky. I'd also get 3 or 4 acrow props and use two underneath a timber inside to hold the ceiling joists in place and one or two for the outside with strongboys (these fit onto the acrow with a blade which slots into a raked out cement bed between brick courses). To be honest, if you are unsure, I'd get a pro in.

Dominic

Very much depends what is above it but the frame probably acts as a bressumer now.......span looks approx 120mm so possibly fine on a new frame but it will be difficult to pre- stress it and Aluminium frames are not very strong -even a little bit of extra pressure could slightly distort frame and cause doors to bind
 Concrete lintel will look awful so you need a Catnic lintel and then you can replace a soldier course in the web of the lintel
I suspect the joists run parallel to the window as I can see a window opposite in the room and unlikely that joists run over both perpendicular in which case you do not need joist support during the operation just 3 strongboys (2 outside and 1 inside in the middle).......make sure you give the lintel min120mm bearing on each side

Jimbro66

The soldier course won't hold itself up but in the second photo it looks like it might be sitting on either a steel angle or the toe of a Catnic lintel. It's hard to see exactly what's there from the photo but there is a line of something an inch or so in front of the PVC frame which might be something structural or may be only a damp proof membrane. The stretcher brickwork above the soldier course suggests it's a cavity wall. Older buildings often had a concrete lintel bearing on the inner leaf of the wall and a steel angle bolted to that to carry the outer leaf (soldier course). Buildings for the past fifty years-ish have most often used Catnic type steel lintels. However, usually more of the toe of the Catnic can be seen below the soldier course.

Maybe see if you can get a closer look at what is happening above the window frame? Is that something steel or just a thin membrane?

If that soldier course was sitting only on the window frame (!) you'd almost certainly see some fine cracking in or above the soldiers. None shows in the photos.

Jimbro66

Having looked at the second photo in Photoshop it looks like the line below the soldiers might be only black mastic.

Maybe do a bit of exploring to see if it is covering the toe of a lintel?

Budgie

A lintel would be sitting on the bricks either side of the soldiers. The soldiers start half way up a brick.

Jimbro66

Budgie said:

A lintel would be sitting on the bricks either side of the soldiers. The soldiers start half way up a brick.

That's right. Which suggests to me it is more likely that the soldier course is carried by a steel angle rawlbolted to a concrete lintel behind. We don't know the age of the building and whether it was constructed in the period when concrete lintels were still in common use.

You'll notice that the top of the soldiers does align with the brickwork coursing so, as the wall mortar joints aren't unusually thick, the soldiers seem to be less than a normal brick length - so maybe 7.5 - 8 inches long instead of 9" (230mm).

rawk100

Thanks for the comments. The house was built in The 1930s if that helps. I will look closer at what that is between the white plastic strip and the soldier course, I may actually try and rip the plastic strip off.

grungebob

Couldn’t you fit an I beam lintel and refit the bricks into the frame of the I beam? Would keep the aesthetics. 

hywelg

Gonna have to make a bit of a mess to find out. No big deal if you do need to put a lintel in, but you might need to do a bit of improvising. And replastering.

http://www.less2build.com/lintels/catnic-lintels-all-types/catnic-solid-wall-200mm/catnic-lintel-cn71a-1200mm-standard-duty

A couple of acros and a piece of 2x2 on the outer edge will keep the soldier course in place. (remember to leave enough room for the lip of the lintel. Then on the inside you're going to have to knock some plaster off to find out whats there, likely a timber lintel, which will need to come out. WHen I've done this I use t section steel inserted into the mortar joints above the top of the old lintel like in the photo. You'll need to be high enough to allow for the new lintel, I was putting a concrete one in.

Yet again I cannot get Dropbox links to work. Try copying and pasting

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0trz5zdazi9gv7d/DSC_0131.JPG?dl=0

Jimbro66

rawk100 said:

Thanks for the comments. The house was built in The 1930s if that helps. I will look closer at what that is between the white plastic strip and the soldier course, I may actually try and rip the plastic strip off.

If built in the 1930s it will not be a Catnic type lintel. Probably a concrete lintel but possibly even timber. A little bit of exploration is required, inside and outside, to try to establish what the construction is above the window.

The wall in the top photo looks sound with no obvious signs of settlement so I'll be surprised if you don't find adequate structure over the window but proceed with caution and be prepared to prop before anything is removed as advised by @Budgie.

Removing the wall below the window should not be a problem. You'll need to close the cavity each side of the opening.

Budgie

I’d just strongboy the course above the soldiers, install a single skin lintel  cut the bricks to size and rebuild. The inner reveal must have a lintel already so no need for internal work.... unless your window frame is 9 inches deep of course

JohnnyPlectrum

You will need a lintel but you'll already have a lintel. 
With vertical soldiers rather than an arch the probable current configuration is a concrete lintel with a shelf angle.
It's unusual to find a loadbearing window frame except for some bay type windows.
You need to do a little more investigation to determine what's there but my best guess is that it'll be already suitable.
The windows have been out at least once before without, it appears, any undue problems.

Fuengi

All good advice above.

If I had to bet I'd say there isn't a lintel as it would normally run with the brick coursing and the soldiers have been cut between courses. 

I'm guessing some sort of plate over the frame..

Phil_aka_Pip

I'm no expert but external walls are load bearing in older brick-built houses so I can't believe there is no form of lintel in there - so one would be needed whatever modification was done to the window, plus support required while the window is not in place.