Death of guitar and youtube musicians - Tim and Pete show

meltedbuzzbox

Rhcp have been going since the 80s. They're first big success was blood sugar sex magik in the 90s

Grocer_Jack

In terms of barriers to entry, surely today it's easier than ever for a young band to record, buy good quality instruments cheaply, publicise the band, distribute music etc - as the Desperate Bicycles said; "it's cheap, it's easy, go and do it" (Google them). 
Maybe the audience isn't there though? But why? 

meltedbuzzbox

Music moves in circles. It always has, it always will.

StuartMac290

Grocer_Jack said:

Teetonetal said:

StuartMac290 said:

In very simplistic terms:

50s - Chuck Berry / Elvis Presley
60s - The Beatles / The Stones
70s - Sex Pistols / The Clash
80s - The Smiths / REM 
          Stone Roses / Happy Mondays
90s - Nirvana / Pearl Jam
          Oasis / Blur
2000s - ???
2010s - ???

2000 Coldplay, Muse, Arctic Monkeys surely? all massive.
2010  TBD - Ben Howard, ALT J, war on drugs, St vincent? Certainly all have created some kind of buzz.


But the modern thing is the record company just is not as important as it once was in any kind of alternative music. So they focus on mainstream. It's more reliable.

2000's - White Stripes , RHCP, 

but seriously this is a bonkers list. The Sex Pistols and The Clash for the 70's - massively influential but orders of magnitude less important in terms of record sales than Led Zeppelin! Or The Eagles. If you're going to start the list with Elvis, Beatles, Stones etc you've got to keep it at that level. Happy Mondays?? They only started selling records when they downplayed the guitar and hooked up with Paul Oakenfold. Even then they were small beer compared to Bon Jovi and tons of US stadium metallers.

You've totally missed the point - it's not about sales, it's about huge seismic shifts in youth culture leading to a complete transformation of mainstream arts. This applies to neither Led Zeppelin nor The Eagles!

Grocer_Jack

meltedbuzzbox said:

Rhcp have been going since the 80s. They're first big success was blood sugar sex magik in the 90s

I know

Grocer_Jack

StuartMac290 said:

Grocer_Jack said:

Teetonetal said:

StuartMac290 said:

In very simplistic terms:

50s - Chuck Berry / Elvis Presley
60s - The Beatles / The Stones
70s - Sex Pistols / The Clash
80s - The Smiths / REM 
          Stone Roses / Happy Mondays
90s - Nirvana / Pearl Jam
          Oasis / Blur
2000s - ???
2010s - ???

2000 Coldplay, Muse, Arctic Monkeys surely? all massive.
2010  TBD - Ben Howard, ALT J, war on drugs, St vincent? Certainly all have created some kind of buzz.


But the modern thing is the record company just is not as important as it once was in any kind of alternative music. So they focus on mainstream. It's more reliable.

2000's - White Stripes , RHCP, 

but seriously this is a bonkers list. The Sex Pistols and The Clash for the 70's - massively influential but orders of magnitude less important in terms of record sales than Led Zeppelin! Or The Eagles. If you're going to start the list with Elvis, Beatles, Stones etc you've got to keep it at that level. Happy Mondays?? They only started selling records when they downplayed the guitar and hooked up with Paul Oakenfold. Even then they were small beer compared to Bon Jovi and tons of US stadium metallers.

You've totally missed the point - it's not about sales, it's about huge seismic shifts in youth culture leading to a complete transformation of mainstream arts. This applies to neither Led Zeppelin nor The Eagles!

OK, your 50s and 60s examples have that massive impact. Punk changed my life, but look which acts were top of the charts in 76 and 77. Disco had far more impact than punk on the masses. Punk's biggest achievement was to smash the cartel of the major labels as a route to market, so maybe that counts for something. 

AlexC

I love this idea that if something is on YouTube then it’s ‘there for discovery.’ I guess it is, in theory - but those that come out of that arena have publicity and media savvy same as anyone who ever made it (or good management). YT is a free for all with way too much content. Until I joined this forum I hadn’t heard of a single one of these ‘Internet guitar celebrities’ or shop salesman. And I wish I hadn’t. Why the hell would I watch them for an hour when I can actually play the guitar for an hour instead?

Danielsguitars

Grocer_Jack said:

 OK, your 50s and 60s examples have that massive impact. Punk changed my life, but look which acts were top of the charts in 76 and 77. Disco had far more impact than punk on the masses. Punk's biggest achievement was to smash the cartel of the major labels as a route to market, so maybe that counts for something. 

Don't forget the funk, love it 

I was listening to the Jones girls and the pointer sisters today and both groups would put today's lot to shame imo
A big difference for me is if you wern't really good you wouldn't get a record deal, you had to deliver it live too, no bloody pre recorded crap 

Same as Bill Withers, Maceo Parker etc 
The bands and musicians were absolutely at the top of there game 

Listen to the productions back then, today's sound is rubbish in comparrison 

Bands like clutch are influenced by all that music, I think they play bustin loose by Chuck Brown and the soul searchers , he's thought of as the founder of go go music 

meltedbuzzbox

StuartMac290 said:

Grocer_Jack said:

Teetonetal said:

StuartMac290 said:

In very simplistic terms:

50s - Chuck Berry / Elvis Presley
60s - The Beatles / The Stones
70s - Sex Pistols / The Clash
80s - The Smiths / REM 
          Stone Roses / Happy Mondays
90s - Nirvana / Pearl Jam
          Oasis / Blur
2000s - ???
2010s - ???

2000 Coldplay, Muse, Arctic Monkeys surely? all massive.
2010  TBD - Ben Howard, ALT J, war on drugs, St vincent? Certainly all have created some kind of buzz.


But the modern thing is the record company just is not as important as it once was in any kind of alternative music. So they focus on mainstream. It's more reliable.

2000's - White Stripes , RHCP, 

but seriously this is a bonkers list. The Sex Pistols and The Clash for the 70's - massively influential but orders of magnitude less important in terms of record sales than Led Zeppelin! Or The Eagles. If you're going to start the list with Elvis, Beatles, Stones etc you've got to keep it at that level. Happy Mondays?? They only started selling records when they downplayed the guitar and hooked up with Paul Oakenfold. Even then they were small beer compared to Bon Jovi and tons of US stadium metallers.

You've totally missed the point - it's not about sales, it's about huge seismic shifts in youth culture leading to a complete transformation of mainstream arts. This applies to neither Led Zeppelin nor The Eagles!

What has cultural shift got to do with the death of the guitar?

Where's your references to hip hop? Rave and jungle? Nu metal? The second wave of indie?

As for led zep, they turned the way the music industry works on it's head. They changed the face of fashion for a time, influenced over 4 decades worth of musicians and provided a fuck tonne of timeless tracks

AlexC

Oh man... I tried to watch that video. I have no idea who they are but it’s like eavesdropping on your neighbours, or something. Do people really need to film themselves having a conversation? 
The arts - for every one person that actually does something there’s 200 people commenting on it.
(He says - commenting on the commentators)

Teetonetal

@AlexC Tim pierce is / was a very prominent session guy in LA, he has played on a huge amount of records. Pete Thorn has played on tours for some big names... so I think it's cool to get insight from successful people in the industry.

I commute 4 hrs a day. A bit of youtube content like that is a very nice way to while a way some of that time.

Strangefan

The old man mentality on here is sometines astonishing,... "if its not right in front of my f ace then it doesnt exist",

There are so many influences and guitar is huge, yes maybe not as big as it used to be  but it's still a main stream instrument. 

Guitar doesn't start with the beatles and end with hendrix /led zep, these bands are fast becoming obsolete,... And for me.... Good! Sone of these bands are 70 plus years old, why should the kids see them as influences?

Metal is still huge, acoustic is still huge,  guitar will always be around, just because manufacturers are pretending it's still the number one dominant instrument and their own 2nd hand guitars are not competition does not mean, the guitar is doomed its just evolving. 

meltedbuzzbox

Have a wiz @Strangefan ;

Musicman20

I do agree with the idea of 'we already have enough guitars'....I mean how many companies can sustain a good turnover?!

I've just heard that Musicman have had to increase their prices. I understand why; they've explained the costs of building in California are extremely high. But, once it gets over here, that extra $300 on a Bongo Bass Guitar becomes £500 no doubt.

Who can realistically shell out £2500-3000 on a guitar? Not the younger crowd, unless they have huge debt traiiling them.

impmann

Musicman20 said:

I do agree with the idea of 'we already have enough guitars'....I mean how many companies can sustain a good turnover?!

I've just heard that Musicman have had to increase their prices. I understand why; they've explained the costs of building in California are extremely high. But, once it gets over here, that extra $300 on a Bongo Bass Guitar becomes £500 no doubt.

Who can realistically shell out £2500-3000 on a guitar? Not the younger crowd, unless they have huge debt traiiling them.

TBH, when I was "the younger crowd" I couldn't afford a high end guitar either.

meltedbuzzbox

I played a £350 Ibanez rg for the best part of 11 years when I was younger

impmann

I still have a Squier Silver Series Strat 26 years on (cost £199 at the time, and that was all I could afford) - and its still a great guitar.

Musicman20

impmann said:

Musicman20 said:

I do agree with the idea of 'we already have enough guitars'....I mean how many companies can sustain a good turnover?!

I've just heard that Musicman have had to increase their prices. I understand why; they've explained the costs of building in California are extremely high. But, once it gets over here, that extra $300 on a Bongo Bass Guitar becomes £500 no doubt.

Who can realistically shell out £2500-3000 on a guitar? Not the younger crowd, unless they have huge debt traiiling them.

TBH, when I was "the younger crowd" I couldn't afford a high end guitar either.

When I was 18, I worked part time before going off to study, and basically saved and got 6 months interest free finance for a Musicman Stingray. I went for the more expensive natural finish. They didn't offer different pickup options then.

That was about £1000. Using a rough calculation online, that same bass should be around £1600. It's actually £1800+ now....and that is before the above price rise of $200-400 per instrument hits as per the above.

A Musicman Stingray bass was and still is a high end bass guitar in my opinion.