PRS and 24 Frets

thegummy

Was just thinking, the first flagship PRS had 24 frets and, according to guitar websites, the vast majority of PRS guitars sold are the 24 fret model.

Yet if you look at "Paul's Guitar" which is the man himself's own preference in specs, it's got 22 frets.

So I wonder why the company is so associated with 24 frets when the man behind it prefers the 22 frets of the "standard" guitars. Why did he even decide to have 24 in the first place?

hobbio

Because he thought that was what his customers wanted?

SimonC

Dunno, Is he not on record as saying his favourite guitar is a Les Paul Junior?
You don’t see too many SE Ones these days.

WezV

I think a lot of it is down to the era when Paul was starting out.  

richardhomer

WezV said:

I think a lot of it is down to the era when Paul was starting out.  

Very much this. 

He discovered that shorter, stiffer 22 fret necks gave a fatter tone and all his personal guitars have had this feature since he started making them in the mid-90s

guitarfishbay

I prefer the 22 fret PRS guitars. Neck pickup sounds nicer IMO, but I think the whole guitar can sound a bit beefier in general

thegummy

WezV said:

I think a lot of it is down to the era when Paul was starting out.  

Yeah that's what I'd have guessed.

Seems uncharacteristic of him though to go for a trend rather than painstakingly experiment to determine every decision.

Would absolutely love up talk to him about the subject.

Maybe the kind of tones he was into at the time (or players in general) didn't expose the lack of bass in the neck pickup and only later when more old-school sounds came back he started to feel the neck pickup needed to be bassier?

thegummy

richardhomer said:

WezV said:

I think a lot of it is down to the era when Paul was starting out.  

Very much this. 

He discovered that shorter, stiffer 22 fret necks gave a fatter tone and all his personal guitars have had this feature since he started making them in the mid-90s

That's an interesting point - I always attribute the difference to the neck pickup placement.

Would be interesting to compare two guitars with the same bridge pickup to hear how much difference the neck itself makes.

WezV

He even went as far as artificially extending the heel to make necks stiffer, so it’s definitely a factor for him.

if you go to meet him I can guarantee he will give a straight bullshit free answer to you question.

a struggling guitar builder just starting out doesn’t have the option to build a few hundred test models to research everything they want to.   

JayGee

I really wish he (or at least Joe Knaggs) had done a 22 fret Mira, I know there was the Mira-X but that’s not the same thing at all...

Whitecat

JayGee said:

I really wish he (or at least Joe Knaggs) had done a 22 fret Mira, I know there was the Mira-X but that’s not the same thing at all...

Mira 245 is 22 frets
Both S2 Miras are 22 frets

maltingsaudio

thegummy said:

richardhomer said:

WezV said:

I think a lot of it is down to the era when Paul was starting out.  

Very much this. 

He discovered that shorter, stiffer 22 fret necks gave a fatter tone and all his personal guitars have had this feature since he started making them in the mid-90s

That's an interesting point - I always attribute the difference to the neck pickup placement.

Would be interesting to compare two guitars with the same bridge pickup to hear how much difference the neck itself makes.

As above when  he started out 22 frets were the norm, and there was and still is a lot of debate as to neck pickup position and harmonics scale length and maths!

p90fool

I've tried two older 24 fret PRSs and they both had terrible dead spots around the 12th fret on the G string.

I'm sure they must've cured it on later guitars, but the early ones were bloody awful unplugged or played very clean.  

Whitecat

p90fool said:

I've tried two older 24 fret PRSs and they both had terrible dead spots around the 12th fret on the G string.

I'm sure they must've cured it on later guitars, but the early ones were bloody awful unplugged or played very clean.  

Allegedly this is why they switched from the “small heel” to the bigger one. 

crunchman

p90fool said:

I've tried two older 24 fret PRSs and they both had terrible dead spots around the 12th fret on the G string.

I'm sure they must've cured it on later guitars, but the early ones were bloody awful unplugged or played very clean.  

That's why the newer ones have the bigger heel.

I've got an old copy of the PRS book that goes through the whole process of the origin of the 22 fret guitars.  It was definitely a case of trying to make them sound beefier.  The neck pickup placement may have been part of it as well, but fundamentally, it was about making the length of unsupported neck shorter.  That has a big effect on neck stiffness.  I think the wide fat neck that appeared around that time was part of that whole thing as well.  A beefier neck is stiffer.

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

p90fool said:

I've tried two older 24 fret PRSs and they both had terrible dead spots around the 12th fret on the G string.

I'm sure they must've cured it on later guitars, but the early ones were bloody awful unplugged or played very clean.  

Allegedly this is why they switched from the “small heel” to the bigger one. 

it is common on such early Custom 24's with small heel, but not on all - try each one and evaluate accordingly

grungebob

I have a 91 with the small heel and there’s no dead spots so as above, it’s not on all. 

thegummy

crunchman said:

p90fool said:

I've tried two older 24 fret PRSs and they both had terrible dead spots around the 12th fret on the G string.

I'm sure they must've cured it on later guitars, but the early ones were bloody awful unplugged or played very clean.  

That's why the newer ones have the bigger heel.

I've got an old copy of the PRS book that goes through the whole process of the origin of the 22 fret guitars.  It was definitely a case of trying to make them sound beefier.  The neck pickup placement may have been part of it as well, but fundamentally, it was about making the length of unsupported neck shorter.  That has a big effect on neck stiffness.  I think the wide fat neck that appeared around that time was part of that whole thing as well.  A beefier neck is stiffer.

What's the book called?

I do love PRS. Keep thinking I should have bought a custom 22 or 245 instead of a les Paul.

chromatuna

I have owned a Custom 24 for about fifteen years now, I think I had wanted one since the late eighties. I think I can honestly say I have never needed the top two frets nor do my fingers actually fit between them ;-) No dead spots though.

I think for me it was part of the whole Rolls Royce guitar idea that I had about PRS then and if I could make the decision again I would probably buy a 22. There's also something about everything seeming slightly to the left with a 24, not a problem when you are used to it although I think it may contribute a little to the cramp in my left hand that I sometime experience. 

(I am not and never have been a dentist or an accountant but I do love my PRS)

thegummy

I think the advantage of the 24 frets isn't really being able to play the last 2 but being able to play 12-17 more easily because they're in the area where 7-12 are on a 22 fret guitar rather than way up on the body.

Funkfingers

SimonC said:

Is he not on record as saying his favourite guitar is a Les Paul Junior?

Smith's first building efforts were strongly based on the LP Junior and Special. 

The first twenty four fret guitar was the one commissioned by Ted Nugent. The word commission implies that Nugent requested that many frets. That guitar prompted the Frampton one (which is where the bird inlays first appear). Thus, twenty four fret necks is what Smith became known for. That is what customers expected.

grungebob said:

I have a 91 with the small heel and there’s no dead spots

+1

1993. Short heel. No dead spots.