Roasted necks

thebreeze

It is Sunday after all....

What’s the deal with these?  Is it purely an aesthetic/looks thing or is there another reason why manufacturers are starting to use them? (I’ve only become aware of them recently).

sweepy

I always assumed that Roasted or Torrified necks are more stable, in reality I have found that ordinary maple necks are far more stable than mahogany anyway so maybe it’s a fashion/aesthetic thing after all

flying_pie

I assume it's part aesthetics and part marketing bollocks. 

What sounds better - a maple neck or a free range organic roasted maple neck?

GluedtoMusic

It makes the wood more stable and slightly lighter.

JerkMoans

flying_pie said:

What sounds better - a maple neck or a free range organic roasted maple neck?

Depends: is it Fairtrade?

MikeB

I'd assumed it's because it looks like Caramel and everything is better with Caramel in it!?! 

flying_pie

JerkMoans said:

flying_pie said:

What sounds better - a maple neck or a free range organic roasted maple neck?

Depends: is it Fairtrade?

Obviously locally (and responsibly) sourced fairtrade. That goes without saying.

I prefer to get mine from our Farmers Market along with industrial quantities of kale and pulled pork wraps 

WezV

sweepy said:

I always assumed that Roasted or Torrified necks are more stable, in reality I have found that ordinary maple necks are far more stable than mahogany anyway so maybe it’s a fashion/aesthetic thing after all

But that one example doesn’t stop the effect.  Quartersawn is more stable than flat sawn.  Torrified is more stable than not.  If you goal is ultimate stability and stiffness then it makes sense to go with laminated  quartersawn torrified maple and chuck in some cf bars whilst you are there.... you can combine the affect of all these things

in theory, almost all the tension in the wood is released during the process.  The wood is changed on a cellular level and loses its hygroscopic tendencies...  

the process can can be overdone so those cells start to break down.  I assume that’s why people like Gibson stopped using the really dark bits from their original ads for roasted maple. 

SunDevil

What @WezV said! :-)

So from a practical point of view, it kinda makes sense to roast Birdseye maple - (bit more stability to a less stable wood) if you want the aesthetic 

..it also looks nice - nothing wrong with that!

m_c

It looks nice.
Is any other reason needed?

thebreeze

Thanks chaps, that’s interesting.  So it’s a bit of both really.

Dominic

'Birdseye' Maple,like Burr Walnut is taken from the root which like Briar is the most dense part.....I think
Interestingly One Luthier and 2 cabinet-makers have told me that quarter sawn is less stable than shorter grain flat -sawn
who knows/cares ?
the critical issue is the drying process and relative humidity - the optimum for construction C24 grade structural timber is 17 %
You have to wonder that if this is the seriously researched opinion of Building Technology Institute and all their testing facilities etc how can they be wrong ? or maybe, this doesn't apply to finer uses such as instruments, fine furniture etc

ICBM

I did some work on a roasted maple neck recently for a forum member, and I was surprised to find that it was softer than I expected - noticeably softer than standard maple when drilling into it. It was also interesting to see that the process does definitely go evenly right through the piece, I wasn't quite sure if that would be the case - but the dust that came out from the bottom of the hole was exactly the same colour as from the top.

The guitar was very nice and resonant when put together too, but I have no idea if the roasted maple contributed to that, without comparing to an otherwise identical non-roasted one. (And bearing in mind that no two pieces of wood are ever truly identical anyway.)

For what it's worth, I hear a difference between quarter-sawn and flat-sawn necks too - it's another of those things which is not huge, but quite distinctive when you've heard a lot of examples of each. To me, quarter-sawn sounds tighter and more focused, flat-sawn sounds looser and more open. This isn't surprising when you know that a quarter-sawn neck is stiffer front-to back, the thinner dimension of the neck.

Most vintage Fender necks are flat-sawn, if it matters...

Wazmeister

I personally believe that Quartersawn necks are mandatory on my guitars... I agree with @ICBM in that they are tighter, more chimey and imho superior.

I will say having just owned a gorgeous CS LPK '62, which had a wuartersawn roasted neck... and it is superb. Very resonant and rings for ages...

Philly_Q

Quartersawn looks great too... even more so if it's roasted.

Although I have seen some roasted maple necks which look too dark... the burnt toast of the guitar world.

ICBM

Wazmeister said:

I personally believe that Quartersawn necks are mandatory on my guitars... I agree with @ICBM in that they are tighter, more chimey and imho superior.

I like them both for different reasons. I would even go as far as saying I prefer quartersawn on a Tele and flatsawn on a Strat, it seems to enhance the different sounds of the two guitars.

I know some people are no doubt laughing at this, but I honestly think you can tell the difference.

brooom

I agree, I prefer the response of flatsawn necks on strats and have made a point of always ordering custom shop strats with flatsawn necks. In all honesty I much prefer them in teles as well, but it bothers me less to have quartersawn neck on a tele, as it kind of goes along with the biting feel of the guitar.

WezV

ICBM said:

Most vintage Fender necks are flat-sawn, if it matters...

It matters, but not in a better or worse kinda way. Some use that example to suggest grain direction is unimportant, which is daft.

 Flatsawn is fine for maple, especially vintage style where some neck flex is desirable.  Flatsawn mahogany is a terrible idea for a neck.   Although I tend to buy flatsawn in both, because once I flip it 90 degrees and laminate it it’s effectively quartsawn anyway 

the softer feeling on the roasted you had may have been misleading... it is supposed to drill easier as it’s resin content will be harder, less likely to gum up a drill bit

thebreeze

Philly_Q said:

Quartersawn looks great too... even more so if it's roasted.

Although I have seen some roasted maple necks which look too dark... the burnt toast of the guitar world.

I agree, I do think they can look too dark sometimes.

Philly_Q

@WezV ;  a question:  would you still put a finish on a roasted maple neck even though Warmoth (for example) say it doesn't need a finish to stay withinn their warranty?

WezV

I don’t believe in “unfinished”. 

may just be a light coat of oil or a rub down with wax... but all woods feel better for a bit of something

Warmoth like to focus on ease for the customer.  I have worked on many of their exotics which they advertised on not needing a finish.  They were all much better with a bit of extra effort