Warranty question

impmann

Nick said:

The manufacturer is unlikely to honour the warranty as you've made modifications to the instrument.

Don't waste your time arguing the toss about a less-than-optimal neck angle. You are unlikely to convince Gibson that this is a "defect" and that it has any major implications at all.

Get a setup done if you haven't already, it seems the guitar is due one. £60 well spent!

This.

A lot of folk make a big deal about neck angles - if the guitar is set up properly, it makes not a shit of difference. My own Goldtop, which many of this parish covet, sounds epic, stays in tune perfectly and has this "defect" regarding neck angle. As I've made the point on many occasions, Gibson make the tailpiece adjustable for height - it doesn't make any difference to the sound if its screwed down to the body (and before any smart alecs say it does - no it doesn't... I've tried), nor to the sustain (ditto). If it bothers you, screw the tailpiece down and top wrap it... I think that looks ghastly but others dig it.

I'm not wishing to teach granny to suck eggs or anything else for that matter - but how are you stringing the guitar? 99.9% of issues concerning slippage I've encountered have been because the string isn't anchored properly on the capstan of the machine head. Frankly, on a non-trem guitar the 'need' for locking machine heads is moot at best - yes it saves time, if you know what you are doing but having seen a few recently where there are multiple winds around the capstan of a locking machine head, the point is being missed by a country mile. Likewise, most guys have too many winds on the capstan - yes its dull but google the different ideologies about how to string your guitar. Nobody is wrong or right, but there is a lot of good solid info out there. I've encountered many guitars with *TERRIBLE* stringing.
Moving onto the nut - I've read the other thread concerning "your friend's" guitar and it looks like you've had a good go at the nut (sorry your friend has). Are you absolutely sure that there is no binding, plus the slot is 'backed off' to allow the string to sit on effectively a knife edge within the nut? Anything less, it will cause issues.
Are you tuning *up* to the note? ALWAYS tune up to a note. If you go past, back off and try again. If you tune down, the mechanism within the machine head (no matter how flash or locking-y) will not be under tension, which can cause the tuning to slip.
How are you stretching your strings in? Violent stretching isn't a bad idea, but long slow pulls then bring the tuning up to pitch again are better. Eventually - and it doesn't take long with good quality strings, see below - the string won't detune no matter how much bending you do. Or at least, that detune will be minimal.
Strings. Thorny subject. Not all strings are created equal. And there are a great many fake strings out there. Fakes, often made in the far east, will be made of poorer quality materials and will not hold tune properly. Cheaper end strings are a very false economy, as you won't get the best from your instrument. I'd lump Gibson's own brand strings into the "won't get the best from your instrument" category too... no idea what brand you are using or gauge but fwiw, I've had no tuning problems on my Les Paul with 10-46 gauge D'Addarrio (genuine ones, there are lots of fakes on Amazon, ebay etc) and Elixr strings - in fact one set of Elixrs were on the guitar for nearly 9 months, many gigs and a couple of FB-organised jams.

Gibson do not warrant for set up issues - no guitar maker does. Tuning stability is a 99.999999999% of the time a set up issue. My advice would be to take the guitar to a quality guitar technician (not all are created equal) or luthier and pay someone to sort it out for you.

Jonathanthomas83

Yeah I'm gonna take it to a tech, thanks.

The nut isn't putting the strings on a knife edge, as you say, so it needs work.

I use NYXL 10-46.

Thanks all.

thegummy

Jonathanthomas83 said:

thegummy said:

Jonathanthomas83 I do, however, think my expectations are set too high, and maybe it's not so much a problem with the guitar as it is my expectation of perfection - which you'd have thought I'd have learned by now, I'm never going to get.

Unless you buy a PRS :P 

Funny you should say that...a Tremonti is on the horizon and I agree. Their builds are impeccable. I have a custom 24. They're no Les Paul though, sound wise, slightly different.

Last night I spent time going back and forth between my Les Paul and Custom 24; I'm not getting on with the LP and was trying to see how much difference in sound the neck pickup had to see how happy I'd be with just the 24.

I found the sound to be very different but I kind of find it hard to believe that the PRS models that are specced almost the same as the Les Paul don't sound almost the same. What could Gibson be doing that makes it sound so different?

Jonathanthomas83

@thegummy haha, I do this same test daily...it doesn't and won't! Haha.

The outcome was that I now want to get shot of both. But will ultimately end up keeping my LP for nostalgia and will buy a Tremonti, which will be a darker/fuller sounding Custom 24 and will hopefully get closer to the modern LP vibe im after, and will have all the feel and appointments I enjoy about PRS guitars. 

stickyfiddle

thegummy said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

thegummy said:

Jonathanthomas83 I do, however, think my expectations are set too high, and maybe it's not so much a problem with the guitar as it is my expectation of perfection - which you'd have thought I'd have learned by now, I'm never going to get.

Unless you buy a PRS :P 

Funny you should say that...a Tremonti is on the horizon and I agree. Their builds are impeccable. I have a custom 24. They're no Les Paul though, sound wise, slightly different.

Last night I spent time going back and forth between my Les Paul and Custom 24; I'm not getting on with the LP and was trying to see how much difference in sound the neck pickup had to see how happy I'd be with just the 24.

I found the sound to be very different but I kind of find it hard to believe that the PRS models that are specced almost the same as the Les Paul don't sound almost the same. What could Gibson be doing that makes it sound so different?

Different pickups, different neck joint (with a lot more unsupported length of neck on the PRS), body thickness, and potentially the PRS trem (if applicable!)

Jonathanthomas83

^ this.

I'll be getting a stoptail PRS, to try and get a tiny bit closer.

impmann

thegummy said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

thegummy said:

Jonathanthomas83 I do, however, think my expectations are set too high, and maybe it's not so much a problem with the guitar as it is my expectation of perfection - which you'd have thought I'd have learned by now, I'm never going to get.

Unless you buy a PRS :P 

Funny you should say that...a Tremonti is on the horizon and I agree. Their builds are impeccable. I have a custom 24. They're no Les Paul though, sound wise, slightly different.

Last night I spent time going back and forth between my Les Paul and Custom 24; I'm not getting on with the LP and was trying to see how much difference in sound the neck pickup had to see how happy I'd be with just the 24.

I found the sound to be very different but I kind of find it hard to believe that the PRS models that are specced almost the same as the Les Paul don't sound almost the same. What could Gibson be doing that makes it sound so different?

Also the position of the neck pickup relative to the 12th fret will be different - that makes a big difference on 24fret guitars and its 100% a deal breaker for me. There are exceptions, but the PRS 24fret guitars have a neck pickup sound that just doesn't do it for me.
The 22 fret ones... different story.

thegummy

I'm meaning the PRS guitars with 22 frets, similar scale to LP and non-trem bridge. Let's just say both have the same pickups too.

The body is thicker on the LP but is that going to affect the sound much? The PRS aren't exactly wafer thin, it's still a big solid chunk of mahogany and maple.

Jonathanthomas83

@thegummy ;The 594 gets closer but didn't have the grunt that my LP has. But the pickups are different. Would be interested to hear a 594 with Burstbucker Pros in (for my tastes - I know a few would argue).

crunchman

thegummy said:

I'm meaning the PRS guitars with 22 frets, similar scale to LP and non-trem bridge. Let's just say both have the same pickups too.

The body is thicker on the LP but is that going to affect the sound much? The PRS aren't exactly wafer thin, it's still a big solid chunk of mahogany and maple.

The top carve on a PRS is much deeper so the maple cap is much thicker where the bridge posts are drilled into the body.  I suspect that this is why the PRS sound is a bit lacking.  If you can get a PRS Standard 22 (all mahogany no maple cap) alongside a Custom 22, you will hear the difference.  To my ears, the Standard 22 sounds a lot better than the Custom 22.

The 594 is the best sounding maple capped PRS I've heard.  After owning and selling 6 "core"US PRS guitars, the 594 is the only one I'd consider buying in the future. One of the tweaks to the 594 is that the mahogany is thicker on that.

A lot of the non-trem PRS also have their one piece wrapover bridge.  I really like that bridge, but it might well sound different from a Tune-o-matic with separate stop tail.

stickyfiddle

thegummy said:

I'm meaning the PRS guitars with 22 frets, similar scale to LP and non-trem bridge. Let's just say both have the same pickups too.

The body is thicker on the LP but is that going to affect the sound much? The PRS aren't exactly wafer thin, it's still a big solid chunk of mahogany and maple.

It's still going to have quite different resonant characteristics because of the different weight of the body (even LPs do this - compare a 7lb LP to an 11 lb one - they won't sound the same), but also the "length" of the neck. On a PRS you have 21 frets clear of the body, on an LP it's only 16, and on a slightly shorter scale length to boot. That will change the resonance of the neck quite significantly.

thegummy

stickyfiddle said:

thegummy said:

I'm meaning the PRS guitars with 22 frets, similar scale to LP and non-trem bridge. Let's just say both have the same pickups too.

The body is thicker on the LP but is that going to affect the sound much? The PRS aren't exactly wafer thin, it's still a big solid chunk of mahogany and maple.

It's still going to have quite different resonant characteristics because of the different weight of the body (even LPs do this - compare a 7lb LP to an 11 lb one - they won't sound the same), but also the "length" of the neck. On a PRS you have 21 frets clear of the body, on an LP it's only 16, and on a slightly shorter scale length to boot. That will change the resonance of the neck quite significantly.

The single cut has the same number of frets clear of the body as the LP.

If the weight of the body varies so much between each les Paul then doesn't it mean that that aspect of them wouldn't cause any one LP to be any different to any one PRS?