Is it possible to get a good single coil and humbucker sound on one guitar?

ICBM

Voxman said:

My PRS Custom 24 does a good job, which is why I bought it!  But make sure you get the 5-way rotary (very stratty in positions 2 & 4) and not the 3-position plus push-pulls as they don't sound the same and are just thinner coil-tap tones.  

I've heard this said before, but one of the rotary positions (I think 9 on the knob) is identical to the pull-coil-split sound - both outer coils in parallel.

Admittedly this one is less 'Stratty' and more like a Tele in the middle position than the inner coils, but it isn't thinner than the same sound with the rotary switch .

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

My PRS Custom 24 does a good job, which is why I bought it!  But make sure you get the 5-way rotary (very stratty in positions 2 & 4) and not the 3-position plus push-pulls as they don't sound the same and are just thinner coil-tap tones.  

I've heard this said before, but one of the rotary positions (I think 9 on the knob) is identical to the pull-coil-split sound - both outer coils in parallel.

Admittedly this one is less 'Stratty' and more like a Tele in the middle position than the inner coils, but it isn't thinner than the same sound with the rotary switch .

It's positions 2 and 4 (or 9 and 7 if you go by the 5 way dial numbers) that are stratty and the 3 way plus coil tap cannot reproduce the same tones. I tried both versions side by side and that's why I went with the 5 way.  

ICBM

Voxman said:

It's positions 2 and 4 (or 9 and 7 if you go by the 5 way dial numbers) that are stratty and the 3 way plus coil tap cannot reproduce the same tones. I tried both versions side by side and that's why I went with the 5 way.  

No, one of them is the same. Position 7 is the inner coils in parallel (similar to a Strat) and position 9 is the outer coils in parallel (similar to a Tele) - the toggle switch in the middle position with the pull-switch pulled is also both outer coils in parallel, the same as position 9.

I know this for certain because I rewired both my rotary-switch PRSs to a toggle/push-pull. If those sounds didn't sound the same between the two different guitars you tried, something else was different.

(I forgot which way round the 7 and 9 sounds were, but I've checked and it is definitely that way.)

Jez6345789

I like the PRS 408 pickups its a neat trick single coil and rather than splitting the humbuckers they are adding turns so the single coil is not weedy. I would like one in my junior would give some great fat single coil into a sort of mini humbucker thing.  One of those projects I will get round to.

axisus

Guitarists. Obsessed with that elusive 0.001% that no bugger will ever hear.

Paul_C

As posted elsewhere, I'm very pleased with the results of adding resistors in line with my coil cut wires ( thanks to @ICBM ) which has transformed my guitar such that while I like the humbuckers, I like the coil cut sounds more.

pintspiller

Black Francis used a MIJ Contemporary Telecaster for a time with Pixies. Sounded like a Tele to me.

ESBlonde

Lots of options. Keef has a SH tele that' nice. A lively yamaha SA2000 with coil taps. 
But if you want the sound of a LP only a LP does it and only a strat does that. Some of the 'nashville' 3 PU teles are pretty versatile.

Edited for phone spellin correcshunz.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

It's positions 2 and 4 (or 9 and 7 if you go by the 5 way dial numbers) that are stratty and the 3 way plus coil tap cannot reproduce the same tones. I tried both versions side by side and that's why I went with the 5 way.  

No, one of them is the same. Position 7 is the inner coils in parallel (similar to a Strat) and position 9 is the outer coils in parallel (similar to a Tele) - the toggle switch in the middle position with the pull-switch pulled is also both outer coils in parallel, the same as position 9.

I know this for certain because I rewired both my rotary-switch PRSs to a toggle/push-pull. If those sounds didn't sound the same between the two different guitars you tried, something else was different.

(I forgot which way round the 7 and 9 sounds were, but I've checked and it is definitely that way.)

Sorry @ICBM but I completely disagree. Before buying my Cu24 I went to DV247 in Barnet to try out their range of PRS and I was there for a couple of hours. They were a PRS main dealer and on the day I visited their PRS rep was there and I chatted with him for quite a while whilst playing.

We discussed the differences between the CE and Customs and the pick up switching and we specifically discussed the 5 way v push-pull version. Common sense suggested the push pull was the way to go. Quicker to use and 6 tonal options v 5.  But I didn't like the push pull tones and liked the 5 way rotary. He confirmed what my ears were telling me that the wiring wasn't the same and the rotary gave more of the Strat like tones I liked that the push pull couldn't deliver.  I tried 4 Cu24s two with 5 way and 2 with push pulls. One of each was with the wide thin neck and one of each with the slightly fatter necks. The pick up tones were identical ie the two 5 ways sounded the same and the two push pulls were the same. But the push pull tones were different to the 5 way rotary.  Believe me if I could have got the same tones from the push pull I would have bought that version..but I couldn't. 

I would add this was in around 2008. I wonder if there were any wiring changes prior to the current 5 way blade being introduced?

normula1

Yes you can. The best one I have uses a multi-turn cermet to tune the partial tap ( voicing the screw coil) by ear until the split bridge / middle sounds right, adjusting pickup heights to even out the volume. I also added a push pull to allow me to voice just the split humbucker too. It's closer than you would expect. I'm using Kinman Woodstocks and a covered BK Mule.

ICBM

Voxman said:

I would add this was in around 2008. I wonder if there were any wiring changes prior to the current 5 way blade being introduced?

Must have been, because the same two coils wired the same way don't sound different depending on what type of physical switch gives you that combination.

For what it's worth, anyone who thinks it isn't possible to get a great humbucker sound and a great single-coil sound in the same guitar should try a Tom Delonge Strat refitted with a DiMarzio PAF Pro in the bridge and a Bareknuckle Mother's Milk in the neck... it doesn't sound quite like a Les Paul but it's still a great humbucker sound. The neck pickup sounds exactly like a Strat.

Voxman

@ICBM - I've just checked on the PRS forum and the wiring on the push-pulls is different. Its exactly why many players preferred the Rotary switch even though the push-pull variation gave 6 options and was easier to use. This is straight from the PRS technical page listing all the switching variations. What's also interesting is that the 5-way blade options aren't the same as the 5-way Rotary either  (for the full list of switching options on all PRS see here - truly staggering the variations they use!:    http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/switching.html):

Custom, CE Bolt-On & Standard

- 22 Fret - 2 PRS Dragon II Humbuckers 
- 24 Fret - PRS HFS Treble Pickup and Vintage Bass Humbuckers 
- 5 Position Rotary-Hybrid Pickup System, Master Volume and Tone Control

ROTARY POSITIONS

• Position 10: Treble pickup
• Position 9: Outside coils- deep and clear - parallel
• Position 8: Series single coils – Warm version of the "in between the treble and middle pickups"
• Position 7: Parallel single coils – Crisp version of the "in between the treble and middle pickups"
• Position 6: Bass pickup

Custom, CE Bolt-On & Standard (Optional 1998 - 2010)

- 22 Fret - 2 PRS Dragon II Humbuckers
- 24 Fret - PRS HFS Treble pickup and Vintage Bass Humbuckers
- 3-Way Toggle, Master Volume and Push-Pull Tone Pot

PUSH-PULL DOWN POSITIONS

• Position 1: Treble Humbucker
• Position 2: Both Humbuckers
• Position 3: Bass Humbucker

PUSH-PULL UP POSITIONS

• Position 4: Bridge Single Coil
• Position 5: Both Single Coils
• Position 6: Neck Single Coil

Custom 24 with 5-Way Blade

- Uncovered 59/09 Humbuckers
- 5-Way Blade Switch, Master Volume and Tone

BLADE POSITIONS

• Position 1: Bridge humbucker
• Position 2: Bridge humbucker with neck singlecoil
• Position 3: Bridge and neck humbuckers
• Position 4: Neck singlecoil with bridge singlecoil
• Position 5: Neck humbucker

ICBM

Voxman said:

@ICBM - I've just checked on the PRS forum and the wiring on the push-pulls is different. Its exactly why many players preferred the Rotary switch even though the push-pull variation gave 6 options and was easier to use. This is straight from the PRS technical page listing all the switching variations. What's also interesting is that the 5-way blade options aren't the same as the 5-way Rotary either  (for the full list of switching options on all PRS see here - truly staggering the variations they use!

It is! And I can see why it causes confusion.

Nonetheless, these two sounds

Voxman said:

ROTARY POSITIONS

Position 9: Outside coils- deep and clear - parallel


PUSH-PULL UP POSITIONS

Position 5: Both Single Coils

Are definitely the same. It doesn't say the push-pull splits to the outer coils, but it does.

What you don't get with the push-pull are these two

Voxman said:

• Position 8: Series single coils – Warm version of the "in between the treble and middle pickups"
• Position 7: Parallel single coils – Crisp version of the "in between the treble and middle pickups"

Which are the 'Strat' one (7) and the 'fat Strat' (8) ones. Both these use the inner coils.

It might also be worth mentioning that the rotary-switch models had a treble pass cap fitted on the volume control and the toggle-switch ones didn't - although that doesn't make any difference when the volume is up full. I'm not sure why they did that! But I left mine in place when I changed to the toggle.

hotpickups

I'm no cork sniffer but my Albert Lee HH sounds quite covincing strat sound when coil split

Voxman

@ICBM it's the position 7 that's best for Strat tones and you can't get that with the push pulls hence I went 5 way rotary.  

ICBM

Voxman said:

@ICBM it's the position 7 that's best for Strat tones and you can't get that with the push pulls hence I went 5 way rotary.  

Yes, that's true - you could rewire the toggle switch to give that sound in the middle position, but then you would have the inner coils selected when either pickup alone was on, which probably wouldn't sound as good if you're after 'Strat' sounds.

The only way to switch from the inner to outer coils is with a rotary or a Superswitch - you need more poles than with even a standard 5-way lever switch, and it can't be done at all with a toggle.

PRS now use a standard 5-way, I think - which is why the 2 and 4 positions only split one of the pickups.

2003amxl

These p rails have caught my eye, a little pricey but interesting.