FS - 1961 Gibson SG Special - Original Vintage - Collectors Grade

WezV

ourmaninthenorth said:

I personally owe the OP an apology...and I'll mind my own business after this. I'm speaking for myself, no-one else. 

I'm not comfortable, regardless how interesting and informed the conversation may be, in discussing this guitar in the context of a sale thread. I'm certainly not going to comment on someone else's price. 

Continued best wishes with your sale OP, apologies for commenting further than I intended. 

That’s fair, I will also bow out unless further evidence of originality is provided.  

although I do think the seller needs to be aware this question will always be asked wherever he offers this guitar for sale.    The joy of non-standard features

DrSpock

WezV said:

DrSpock said:

Wouldn’t bother me either but I wouldnt pay £6750 for one with one. £5.5k is more realistic given the other 61s and Standards available.

He can ask what he wants.

Of course he can, however that doesn't mean it isn't open for discussion should something not be correct. Vintage guitar values are subjective anyway.

jimmyguitar

DrSpock said:

WezV said:

DrSpock said:

Wouldn’t bother me either but I wouldnt pay £6750 for one with one. £5.5k is more realistic given the other 61s and Standards available.

He can ask what he wants.

Of course he can, however that doesn't mean it isn't open for discussion should something not be correct. Vintage guitar values are subjective anyway.

Perhaps in the main guitar forum but not here in the classifieds, it’s against the rules and not very helpful to the seller.

Brize

jimmyguitar said:

Perhaps in the main guitar forum but not here in the classifieds, it’s against the rules and not very helpful to the seller.

And yet when a dealer erroneously claims that a guitar is all-original and hasn't had a re-fret, everyone wants to lynch him.

johnl

Isn't that precisely the value of forums? Perhaps highlighting errors in the description don't help the seller but they certainly help prospective buyers to know what they're purchasing.

Brize

johnl said:

Isn't that precisely the value of forums? Perhaps highlighting errors in the description don't help the seller but they certainly help prospective buyers to know what they're purchasing.

Exactly right. The two guys who bought re-fretted guitars from the same dealer and later posted their grievances on this forum both had no idea and it was suggested that they should have taken someone with them who was more knowledgeable on such matters.

There are a bunch of guys here who can perform that function although, to be frank, you don't need a great deal of expertise to determine that a vintage Gibson with fretwire over the binding has been re-fretted.

jimmyguitar

johnl said:

Isn't that precisely the value of forums? Perhaps highlighting errors in the description don't help the seller but they certainly help prospective buyers to know what they're purchasing.

Yes, highlighting errors is a welcome part of the forum i’d say... i’m talking about discussing the asking price on the sale thread.

For what it’s worth I think a refret is a huge bonus when buying a vintage guitar as the old ones are usually in dire need of it or are tiny original spec wire.

Brize

jimmyguitar said:

For what it’s worth I think a refret is a huge bonus when buying a vintage guitar as the old ones are usually in dire need of it or are tiny original spec wire.

Wis'd. If it was a good re-fret I'd take the view that it had saved me the trouble.

DrSpock

I wasn't discussing the price per se - merely pointing out if it has been re-fretted (which might add playablility but detracts from it's value as a vintage guitar) then it's not worth the asking price. It would be nice if the OP could confirm and then the discussion put to bed.

Brize

DrSpock said:

It would be nice if the OP could confirm and then the discussion put to bed.

The OP has already made clear that he doesn't believe the guitar has been re-fretted.

DrSpock

WezV said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

If it's as lightly played as claimed, and appears,almost zero fade, why would it need a refret? 

If this was sold by George from his private collection, and subsequently by Matt as original frets, I'd be very interested to hear or see any rebuttal material to the contrary. 

its very easy to look at loads of other 61 SG's to show that this is an unusual feature and needs further explanation

This standard shows full nibs
https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Gibson-Les-Paul-SG-1961-Polaris-White-57318#prettyPhoto

For accuracy this guitar has been re-fretted and nibs painted on.

DrSpock

Brize said:

DrSpock said:

It would be nice if the OP could confirm and then the discussion put to bed.

The OP has already made clear that he doesn't believe the guitar has been re-fretted.

Maybe but you would need proof of this - not just a belief.

WezV

DrSpock said:

WezV said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

If it's as lightly played as claimed, and appears,almost zero fade, why would it need a refret? 

If this was sold by George from his private collection, and subsequently by Matt as original frets, I'd be very interested to hear or see any rebuttal material to the contrary. 

its very easy to look at loads of other 61 SG's to show that this is an unusual feature and needs further explanation

This standard shows full nibs
https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Gibson-Les-Paul-SG-1961-Polaris-White-57318#prettyPhoto

For accuracy this guitar has been re-fretted and nibs painted on.

Apologies for that , I missed that one of the examples I provided was a re-fret. 

Although for accuracy its worth pointing out the nibs are not painted on, they have been rebuilt.

"He even built up the nibs on the end of the frets just like a proper factory job (see pictures). "

 Painting them on would be a hack that lasted minutes, rebuilding them is a very involved process only done to maintain vintage accuracy

Brize

DrSpock said:

Brize said:

DrSpock said:

It would be nice if the OP could confirm and then the discussion put to bed.

The OP has already made clear that he doesn't believe the guitar has been re-fretted.

Maybe but you would need proof of this - not just a belief.

I agree but it's impossible to prove so you either believe the OP or you don't.

I don't, and I agree with others that a re-fret on an otherwise pristine guitar brings into question the originality of the finish.

vettahead

there are some super hi res photos here chaps 


http://proof.ttpgp.co.uk/TTPGP/Guitars/Gibson-SG-Special-Cherry-1961/

johnl

I'd say that's a clear refret.

For reference here's another 1961 SG (also in "Cherry" but significantly more faded):

vettahead

https://photos.smugmug.com/TTPGP/Guitars/Gibson-SG-Special-Cherry-1961/i-stFrQ2Z/0/7dbca8f5/X3/untitled shoot-085-X3.jpg

Philly_Q

If nothing else, this debate has supplied us with some very nice pictures.

vettahead

Philly_Q said:

If nothing else, this debate has supplied us with some very nice pictures.

Considering took the ones of the 61 SG in question here ill take that as a compliment.

fretfinder

vettahead said:

Philly_Q said:

If nothing else, this debate has supplied us with some very nice pictures.

Considering took the ones of the 61 SG in question here ill take that as a compliment.

They’re great pics. They do look rather filtered/enhanced and, if they are, it would be good to see some ‘natural’ pics of the guitar.