What would you do?

FINBAR2004

I've been asked by some guys I used to play with in a wedding band, who have since become friends, to help out with a recording project with a singer/song writer they are friendly with. He wanted to record an album of mostly original material and some covers. So far, so good.

I was sent eight mp3's, and my heart sank. Every song had an acoustic guitar and vocal, straight four to the floor rhythm, and nothing to distinguish one song from another. Bland is being kind. This is nothing to do with music snobbery, there are numerous simple songs that I love, but it has more to do the fact that if every song is in the same key and has the same rhythm, and sung in a un-dynamic, passionless drone. I worked for a few small record labels in England as a jack of all trades, engineer/musician and in later times a producer, so I have some insight into how much work and effort it takes to make a track work.

Next step was a rehearsal with the guy, who was very pleasant, but the material needs soo much work. We, the drummer, bassist and myself, changed some of the songs thythms slightly, but never changing the time signature, so 4/4 was always still the pulse, but it was enough to throw him off. Enough that he couldn;t find the “one”. He thinks if he goes into a proper studio for a day or two it will sound professional. It needs arranged, engineered and produced. If we play what he has in mind, it will still sound utter, utter shit, just with a band playing it, rather than a individual.

“Dont worry, I'll see you right” I've been in this situation before and it's never ended well. The studio gets paid but the musicians who helped develop the project get next to nothing or more probably, nothing (which has happened before, on several occasions).

I would need better nearfield monitors, and some Slate Drum software to do justice to the project, which would be my charge for the project, though I've no idea he'd run to this much,( probibly 600 Euro in total), but I'm worried that this guy will not hear the the benifits as he is so musically unaware.

My question is this....

Would you attempt to help this guy, and in doing so help yourself get better kit, or just run away and be rerieved you had no stress to worry about?

Cheers.

Finbar.

richardhomer

I’ve been asked to play on something recently. To be fair, the basic idea is a strong one - and I’ve come up with some acoustic parts that I think enhance it - and that the writer is really pleased with. 

I see my role as playing the best I can for him - while ultimately respecting its his project. I’m not expecting any money whatsoever - I’m just enjoying being involved in something.

Forgive me for being blunt - but it sounds to me like your ego won’t allow you to view it this way. If I’m right, you should probably (politely) extricate yourself from the situation.

Funkfingers

The music project described in the OP is the audio equivalent of vanity publishing. 

I consider FINBAR2004's reluctance as less a matter of egotism and more a matter of self-esteem and/or wishing to maintain standards. 

If the contributing musicians were being offered the proper professional rates for performing the songs anonymously, that would be one thing. If the singer/songwriter character is as naïve as described, the chances are that, when the project does not sell in the millions, the singer/songwriter will tell himself that the backing musicians are the reason why. 

FINBAR2004 said:
“Dont worry, I'll see you right”

Never trust anyone who says, "trust me".

If you want an easy get out, ask how much and for something in writing. The naïve songwriter will suddenly remove you from the project.

TheBigDipper

Drop out before you cause this chap trouble and expense. It doesn't sound like you're that interested in helping him, TBH, and you've been sucked into it by your ex-bandmate asking you. 

It's about the singer and his songs. It's not about the people in the band. If you don't want to be part of helping him, let him find someone else sooner rather than later. Even people who can't sing and write dreadful generic songs deserve the chance to be supported and get them recorded as good as they possibly can be. 

octatonic

Agree that you should get out ASAP.
There are a lot of these sorts of artists and they are usually very frustrating to work for because they don’t work on the things they need to work on to lift the project.

octatonic

Oh and let him down easy.

Emp_Fab

Run.  For doing anything else will just bring a plateful of frustration your way and life is too short to waste any of it on pointless crap.

mistercharlie

TheBigDipper said:

Even people who can't sing and write dreadful generic songs deserve the chance to be supported and get them recorded as good as they possibly can be. 

I disagree. He may be technically entitled to as much support and help as anyone else, but only if he’s offering something in return. In this case, it sounds like he’s offering very little. Nobody “deserves” to use the time and talent of others for whatever crap they want to.

Working on a cool, creative, or fulfilling project for free is one thing, as is working for the experience, or just to connect with great artists. But nobody has to work on a crappy project for no reward whatsoever.

Plus, when it all turns out shit, the fellow who wrote these songs may blame everyone else but himself. 

usedtobe

I’d walk. Now.

horse

It's easy enough to just say you haven't got the time available to be involved at the moment. I'd only be involved in things I actually like, but will do so for free because I enjoy it

Phil_aka_Pip

horse said:

It's easy enough to just say you haven't got the time available to be involved at the moment. I'd only be involved in things I actually like, but will do so for free because I enjoy it

That's almost the Tommy Tedesco rules. Do it if it satisfies at least two of:

1. It's fun
2. It gets you good street cred
3. It pays properly

viz

Phil_aka_Pip said:

horse said:

It's easy enough to just say you haven't got the time available to be involved at the moment. I'd only be involved in things I actually like, but will do so for free because I enjoy it

That's almost the Tommy Tedesco rules. Do it if it satisfies at least two of:

1. It's fun
2. It gets you good street cred
3. It pays properly

 The Viz rules are:

1) It’s musically interesting
2) It’s for a good cause or helps a friend
3) It’s fun

Do it if it satisfies at least one of the above. 

Fretwired

Be honest. Tell them the songs good demos but need work as they are bland and boring. If they disagree with you simply walk away. If they are open to your input it could be an interesting project. It all depends on the dynamics between the people involved.

jdgm

Been there, done that. I wasted a lot of my time.
Drop it - the best way is to be honest, as noted above. That will get you taken off the project!!
As you say he is musically unaware, therefore he will not appreciate your contribution anyway.

thecolourbox

Sounds like Ed Sheeran is trying to book you?

spark240

Don’t do It.....neither of you will ever be happy with the result.

John_P

Gig offers need to have the right combination of fun, interesting and pay.      I’ve done some awful work in the past that paid enough to make it worthwhile.      
If this is a freebie or a vague promise of points and future returns then it needs to be something good or it will it be good networking opportunity? 

When you say that slight changes to the rhythms put him off, I’d see that as a clear flag that you aren’t going to enjoy it but if you sort the finances and benefits  before going any further.

Hick81

Sorry if I’ve missed this but what is your actual role in the project?

Are you being asked to engineer/produce/mix it? 

merlin

Two options. 

1) walk away and thank him for the offer,
2) make a proper professional contact including payment for hours rehearsing, creative input, royalties if it comes to anything and ask him to sign on the dotted line. 

I like the Tommy Tedesco rules. I have had a similar thing since I started out which is based on the vintage board game by Waddingtons called "Careers", where each player had to earn 60 points based on three criteria, fame, wealth and happiness. 

So I usually judge each incoming gig/session/project on those three criteria, which are basically the same as the TT rules. 
Will it earn me a fat wedge? Will it be huge fun (lots of good possibilities here)? Will it give me a real possibility of more work/fame/glory/genuine exposure (TV, radio, media reviews etc). 

If the balance is "yes" then I do the gig.

p90fool

Walk away. I have done this so many times with singer songwriters in my own studio and it always keeps me awake at night trying to build an arrangement. 

I do take on single songs on this basis now, or occasionally a couple, but trying to make a four track EP diverse and interesting takes way more effort than the wanker who wrote the songs bothered to put in. 

To be fair, I'm at the amateur end of the recording scale which means that I'm always going to be a turd polisher, but half a dozen of the artists I've recorded over the last 20 years have made it all worthwhile. 

johnswiss

If you don't like the music don't do it...or on the basis that very little recorded music will make money just do it for the crack and not take it too seriously .If you help make it sound half decent the guy will be really chuffed and it's nice to be involved in something original - I think. If you've got better things to do then I'd do that instead.
Don't be too hard on the songs, most bands/artists songs sound similar - that's kind of what they get through on isn't it? In a wedding band your playing hit song after hit song by different artists in different styles, keys etc. Your not going to get all that from one singer songwriter. But if you really don't like it you might not have your heart in it