Slim necks and hand wrist pain (HELP !) What guitar with a big neck ?

AlexO

Does anyone else suffer with this? I'm not sure how and when it really started as I've never had an issue with slim neck guitars in years gone by. 

It's getting really frustrating now, I've literally got a amazing Gretsch 6120 RHH today and love everything about it but my left hand and wrist is in bits again, same thing happened with the Jazzmaster and the Strat I've recently had.

I'm only 31 and haven't even got big paws. I went the Doctors not to long back to get checked for arthritis and they said I've not got it (yet) but it doesn't half feel like it! I've already had to stop cycling due to a bad back!

My 59Ri 330 doesn't cause me any pain at all. Does anyone know if the shorter scale is helping combined with the chunky neck?
 
Should I just stick to the one guitar or can anyone recommend anything else?  I'm really enjoying playing Rockabilly and Western Swing at the moment hence the Gretsch.

Any advice from those who suffer from similar issues would really be appreciated.

terada

ive had it myself for a while now. There is much that can be done, but it really comes down to you as an individual.

Firstly, if you are able, ask your GP about the musicians clinic in london. Phenomenal tiny department that tailor there diagnoses to the types of injuries that musicians suffer (which are often fairly standard, but with much earlier onset than usual).

https://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/our-services/rheumatology/specialties/musicians-clinic/overview.aspx

In terms of instruments, i find that it is quite a complicated and personal journey. For me, I found that super slim necks were a no no, but also that neck shape was incredibly important, alongside nut width.

For me, my best players are my R8 with a chunky neck, and my AVRI 62 start which is much simmer, but the edges are so rounded and rolled that it feels very comfortable.

The sad part was that the US standard strat that I had played exclusively for a decade prior to the hand issues completely aggravated it. wider fretboard, flatter profile, etc etc.

If your 330 works for you, I'd just play that more, you'll find your sound with that and be pain free. Sounds like a win win.

crunchman

It's not just size.  It's profile but also geometry.  I had problems with a PRS with a wide thin neck, but I've also had problems with an SG, where the neck wasn't like that.

I saw an osteopath for a while, which helped, but he spent most of the time working on my neck and shoulder.  It's all linked together.  Posture while playing is very important.  I think part of the problem with the SG was how far out to the left the far end of the neck was. The angle of the neck is also important.  On a Gibson or PRS, it's normally angled back, so that pushes your shoulder back.  I don't think it's a simple thing though.  It's partly neck profile, but also the overall playing position.

Generally I found that necks that have a decent ratio of depth to width are better, all else being equal, but the profile definitely makes a difference.

Having said all that, the neck on my AVRI 62 Strat isn't big, but I can play that all day.  It seems to work for @terada as well.  Maybe you need one - good excuse for GAS.

One other thing that helped me a lot was joining a gym. Improving the muscles in my shoulders and upper back made a huge difference, and saved me a fortune on osteopath bills.  Haven't seen him for ages now.  One other tip is to make sure that you are in a good posture and typing properly if you are at a computer.

AlexO

crunchman said:

It's not just size.  It's profile but also geometry.  I had problems with a PRS with a wide thin neck, but I've also had problems with an SG, where the neck wasn't like that.

I saw an osteopath for a while, which helped, but he spent most of the time working on my neck and shoulder.  It's all linked together.  Posture while playing is very important.  I think part of the problem with the SG was how far out to the left the far end of the neck was. The angle of the neck is also important.  On a Gibson or PRS, it's normally angled back, so that pushes your shoulder back.  I don't think it's a simple thing though.  It's partly neck profile, but also the overall playing position.

Generally I found that necks that have a decent ratio of depth to width are better, all else being equal, but the profile definitely makes a difference.

Having said all that, the neck on my AVRI 62 Strat isn't big, but I can play that all day.  It seems to work for @terada as well.  Maybe you need one - good excuse for GAS.

One other thing that helped me a lot was joining a gym. Improving the muscles in my shoulders and upper back made a huge difference, and saved me a fortune on osteopath bills.  Haven't seen him for ages now.  One other tip is to make sure that you are in a good posture and typing properly if you are at a computer.

Thanks for this.

I've been seeing a Osteopath for my back for the last few months, never even mentioned the guitar issues to him.

I've always gone to the gym, actually think throwing weights about at 18-21 hasn't helped any of these issues now. I've found swimming and Yoga have helped me loads in general.

I think that's a really good point on the depth to width ratio as I've had a few CS 60s which never caused me any issues but i've had problems on a 60s RI SG.

octatonic

Make a video of you playing.
It could be technique related.

Schnozz

Yeah, it definitely depends on more than the neck - I can't play an Ibanez RG, but I can play a Musician Luke and although both profiles are thin, the distance between the thumb and forefinger helps. Sometimes you can play without stress standing, whereas you have problems sitting down and it was like than for my GJ2 (Friedman). I stick to certain Models where I know exactly what to expect, as it's my no.1 priority, especially after coming from Bass etc.

mkendall

Most Vola guitars have pretty beefy neck profiles  

crunchman

AlexO said:

Thanks for this.

I've been seeing a Osteopath for my back for the last few months, never even mentioned the guitar issues to him.

I've always gone to the gym, actually think throwing weights about at 18-21 hasn't helped any of these issues now. I've found swimming and Yoga have helped me loads in general.

I think that's a really good point on the depth to width ratio as I've had a few CS 60s which never caused me any issues but i've had problems on a 60s RI SG.

I was doing light weights with a decent number of reps.  I'm in my forties and not that worried about huge biceps and a 6 pack.  My gym shut down so I've got to get to a new one.

TheBigDipper

Is it different sitting down vs standing up with a strap? It could be something to do with your basic posture when playing. A   guitar teacher might be able to identify any issues and suggest remedies if that was the case. 

Regarding your specific question. My 59 VOS LP has a neck like a baseball bat but my small hands find it very comfortable to fret notes and barre chords. But I've also got a Brook acoustic with a very slim neck (front to back) and a Strat with the same - both are also comfy for me. 

AlexO

TheBigDipper said:

Is it different sitting down vs standing up with a strap? It could be something to do with your basic posture when playing. A   guitar teacher might be able to identify any issues and suggest remedies if that was the case. 

Regarding your specific question. My 59 VOS LP has a neck like a baseball bat but my small hands find it very comfortable to fret notes and barre chords. But I've also got a Brook acoustic with a very slim neck (front to back) and a Strat with the same - both are also comfy for me. 

Yeah pain happenes if I'm both sitting or standing.

wrinkleygit

Been down this road many times, scale length can also be a factor, currently playing a jaguar strung with 10's which works well most of the time, picked up my old 60's Classic LP the other day & the extra width felt much nicer , find my strat strung with 9's almost impossible to play for more than about 10 mins. One thing I would say is if you have hand/finger issues I wouldn't be lifting weights of any size, best advice consult GP & Physio, Mike 

impmann

I've found some necks have caused problems - and only in older years. I parted out my old Strat that I'd had for ever because the neck was giving my hand cramps - it never used to. I was sad to see it go but I'd narrowed it down to that particular neck - not particularly big, not particularly small or an odd profile etc.

I'm not convinced that 'big' necks cure all ills though - its currently very fashionable to say big necks are more comfy (you read it a lot on line and in print) and they can be for some. However, there was a reason necks got slimmer in the 1960s... fashion as well as comfort for some.

Therefore, I'd suggest that as stated above this could be a technique thing, it could be a posture thing or it could even be something caused by factors outside playing guitar - do you work a keyboard all day, or work with your hands, what is your work posture, how do you sleep, what bed are sleeping in (springing/firmness, pillow type etc).

lovestrat74

I have the exact same problem. First brought about when playing a 67 reissue with a really slim neck. Now I cannot play anything with a "modern" C profile. The neck needs to fill my hand - a play a lot with the thumb over so my hand it wrapped around the neck. I have a Baja, so the neck is chunky but its a nice V, so shoulders aren't big but the V helps fill my hand.

EDIT:- Too many so's..

martinw

Count me in.

I have small hands, yet slim necks (either front to back or width-wise) cause me discomfort when playing. Therefore I choose guitars by how the neck feels.

I've had to sell a few guitars I otherwise loved because ofcthus, including a 64 Epiphone Olympic and a Patrick Eggle Redwing Tornado

crunchman

lovestrat74 said:

I have the exact same problem. First brought about when playing a 67 reissue with a really slim neck. Now I cannot play anything with a "modern" C profile. The neck needs to fill my hand - a play a lot with the thumb over so my hand it wrapped around the neck. I have a Baja, so the neck is chunky but its a nice V, so shoulders aren't big but the V helps fill my hand.

EDIT:- Too many so's..

The Baja neck is nice.  I do like V necks.  My number one acoustic is a Martin HD28V with a V neck.  I can play that for hours.  That would be very difficult to replace as most of the newer Martins have 1 3/4" nuts now not 1 11/16".

I had a Gibson R8 for a while with a huge neck, that was very comfortable to play, but it was so big that is was affecting my playing.  I have very short fingers.  There was something that I had recorded in one take with another guitar that I thought I'd try with the R8 to see how that sounded.  It took me about 10 takes to actually play it cleanly.  Comfortable as it was, I ended up getting rid of it.

The other thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is fingerboard radius.  If you do spend a lot of time playing chords, then an old style Fender 7.25" radius can be very comfortable.  I can play on a 12" Gibson radius, but anything flatter than that I just don't like the feel of, and it does make playing chords seem harder.  Acoustics might be a bit flatter, but again I don't like them too flat.  I got rid of a Brook with a shallow neck and very flat radius.

Ultimately, you have to find guitars with necks and geometry that work for you.  Personally I like V necks, and I like PRS Regular necks (or whatever they call them these days).  The PRS wide fat doesn't cause me problems, but I don't like the feel of it overmuch.  The Wide Thin is a definite no-no.  I like the feel of a lot of Gibson necks, but I've had one or two with a 60's profile that have given me wrist pain if I play them a lot.

As has been said above, just make sure that you are doing the other basic stuff.  Make sure you have a decent posture when playing, and you aren't slumped round shouldered on the sofa.  If playing standing, play with the length of your strap to find the best position - if you are playing with it around your knees that could cause problems.  Make sure you have decent posture when using a computer.  If you use a laptop, it might be worth investing in a proper monitor and keyboard, and get a decent office chair.

earwighoney

Yes, I had a huge amount of hand and wrist pains from playing guitars with thin necks and narrow string spacing. For the latter I play fingerstyle be it on an electric or an acoustic guitar and for the former I play with my left thumb on the back of the neck in the middle - a thin neck cramps up my left hand. 

It's worth trying to find some guitars that suit your own individual body and hands, we all have different ones and consequently some guitars will fit better than others. 

BloodEagle

Extremely thin necks I have no problem with, narrow necks on the other hand do cause me problems.

AlexO

Thanks for all the comments. Really appreciate it.

I think it comes down to a simple thing of no longer buying guitars blind, probably not a bad thing in reality will stop me having to chop and change so much.

SunDevil

For me, this kicks in with new guitars  that I'm not comfortable with and I find I'm trying too hard to stabilise the neck with thumb pressure - strap adjustments have helped

Also, once an issue has developed, it's worth warming up (and down) you're hand and wrist

Ideally, walk away and play something else until you've over the acute pain

Phil_aka_Pip

MD Phillips will sort you out

crunchman

AlexO said:

Thanks for all the comments. Really appreciate it.

I think it comes down to a simple thing of no longer buying guitars blind, probably not a bad thing in reality will stop me having to chop and change so much.

The only problem is that sometimes these problems don't manifest on half an hour playing in a shop.  You can tell whether you like the feel of a neck, but that isn't always everything.  My old SG had nicest playing neck I've ever played, but something about the geometry of it didn't work for me.  I used it for long rehearsal (4 or 5 hours) and my wrist was really sore.  Used my 7.25" small vintage frets Strat the next week and I was absolutely fine.

I've sold 3 guitars I really liked, but sometimes you have to have them for a while before you realise that they cause issues.