VOX AC10 vs Blackstar Artisan 10 AE [?]

Shipwreck

Hi all, 

I'm in the market for a portable, living-room style valve combo and I've narrowed it down to two. I'll of course try both out in due course but would be interested to know if anyone has any experience with them.

In short: I lean towards British amps and use pedals for all of my dirt tones. My current 'main' amplifier is a Blackstar Artisan 30 2x12 and I'm after something with a similar gain structure but within a small form factor. I've been lusting over those cranked Bernard Butler Vox tones as of late so the AC10 has been on my radar for a while... but I've just realised Blackstar (who, for all their shoddy PR and QC - did make a belter of an amp with Artisan) have released 10 watt anniversary replicas of their bigger amps.

I'm aware both aren't exactly high end –– this is more of an accompaniment/alternative to my main amp than an all out replacement –– but I am keen to hear your thoughts and experiences with them if possible.

Ta!

ICBM

I haven’t played the Blackstar, but the Vox sounds excellent despite its rather cheap speaker and flimsy build quality.

ecc83

I have read no reports of the new 10W SE amps (IC, did you not say the speaker choice was a bit 'mere'?) But I am "ideologically opposed" to SE designs anyway!

Yes, the A30 is a monster of an amp but also welded to the deck! If you like the general sound of  the 30 why not audition the Artisan 15? Same pre amp topology (but simpler) EF86 option and pretty loud for a 15, even louder if you swap the Greenback for a 100dB/W/mtr speaker.  Get a head version? One of those into a good 2x12 would keep up with most drummers.

Er? QC problems at B's? Not read anything about that. Not on my watch.

Dave.

Hattigol

Could you not stretch to an AC15 so you get the bigger speaker?

Shipwreck

ecc83 said:

I have read no reports of the new 10W SE amps (IC, did you not say the speaker choice was a bit 'mere'?) But I am "ideologically opposed" to SE designs anyway!

Yes, the A30 is a monster of an amp but also welded to the deck! If you like the general sound of  the 30 why not audition the Artisan 15? Same pre amp topology (but simpler) EF86 option and pretty loud for a 15, even louder if you swap the Greenback for a 100dB/W/mtr speaker.  Get a head version? One of those into a good 2x12 would keep up with most drummers.

Er? QC problems at B's? Not read anything about that. Not on my watch.

Dave.

Great shout on the A15. I guess the new price of the above mentioned aren't far off it's used price (n.b Blackstar are absolutely canned on the use market... I moreorless have away a HT20 I had!). It may well be overkill but I'll keep on the lookout for one.

As for the QC... I've had no issues myself. Just always baffled as to why a Bstar get such a poor rep in guitar circles and I've seen some comments about poor customer service/QC etc. 

The AE model is based on the Plexi Channel of the Artisan I believe. 12" speaker over the 10" in the Vox is a big pull for me but I'd still be longing for that EF86 goodness!

ICBM

Shipwreck said:

12" speaker over the 10" in the Vox is a big pull for me but I'd still be longing for that EF86 goodness!

The modern AC10 doesn't have an EF86. It's nothing at all like the original, other than the name and the EL84s.

The speaker is an issue in the new AC10 too - it's not only some sort of cheap 'derived from' small-magnet 10", replacing it with something better may be difficult because it's right behind the power valves. An Alnico Gold definitely won't fit - even if you want to spend that much - and a larger ceramic magnet might not either.

The way it's constructed is almost hilariously cheap and flimsy - although it doesn't actually seem to be 'bad' as such. But originals weren't a lot better!

Shipwreck

ICBM said:

Shipwreck said:

12" speaker over the 10" in the Vox is a big pull for me but I'd still be longing for that EF86 goodness!

The modern AC10 doesn't have an EF86. It's nothing at all like the original, other than the name and the EL84s.

The speaker is an issue in the new AC10 too - it's not only some sort of cheap 'derived from' small-magnet 10", replacing it with something better may be difficult because it's right behind the power valves. An Alnico Gold definitely won't fit - even if you want to spend that much - and a larger ceramic magnet might not either.

The way it's constructed is almost hilariously cheap and flimsy - although it doesn't actually seem to be 'bad' as such. But originals weren't a lot better!

Sorry - I was referring to the EF86 in the Artisan 15/30. Which is a great tube but I do worry if (even at 15 watts/5 annuetated) it'll be still obscenely loud and therefore stepping on it's bigger brother's toes.

thanks for the feedback on the AC10. It sounds great in the demos but the speaker - and the many claims of boxiness and low build quality - do put me off a little. I'll be keen to see how it handles the gain and fuzz I throw at amps!

uncledick

You could always buy the Cornell Plexi 7 on here. 

ecc83

" but I do worry if (even at 15 watts/5 annuetated) it'll be still obscenely loud and therefore stepping on it's bigger brother's toes.

Don't see why Ships'?  The A15 has nicely 'progressive' volume pots per channel, not the ***t or bust controls some amps use, two input sensitivities and, as you say, the 5W triode mode.

Dave.

Deadman

I've got the AC10 and wouldn't change a thing with it. Sounds amazing to my ear, if a little bright with my Tele but rolling back the tone knob on the guitar slightly sorts that out. And I was always a 12" snob previously.

On the subject of gain, you'll get it to break up (just) nicely at not too high a volume but don't expect lots of crunch. 

I get that they're cheaply made but from the outside it also looks and feels great. It's light and portable too. I think the search for my ultimate home amp might be over and I've had a bucket load.

Shipwreck

ecc83 said:

" but I do worry if (even at 15 watts/5 annuetated) it'll be still obscenely loud and therefore stepping on it's bigger brother's toes.

Don't see why Ships'?  The A15 has nicely 'progressive' volume pots per channel, not the ***t or bust controls some amps use, two input sensitivities and, as you say, the 5W triode mode.

Dave.

ecc83 said:

" but I do worry if (even at 15 watts/5 annuetated) it'll be still obscenely loud and therefore stepping on it's bigger brother's toes.

Don't see why Ships'?  The A15 has nicely 'progressive' volume pots per channel, not the ***t or bust controls some amps use, two input sensitivities and, as you say, the 5W triode mode.

Dave.

Ooh - you drive a hard bargain. Admittedly my quick eBay search at work today found a listing from someone selling one because it was 'too effing loud' (or something along those lines). But I will of course check one out as it's not far off the ballpark 400 squid that the AE10 and AC10 occupy. 

Deadman said:

I've got the AC10 and wouldn't change a thing with it. Sounds amazing to my ear, if a little bright with my Tele but rolling back the tone knob on the guitar slightly sorts that out. And I was always a 12" snob previously.

On the subject of gain, you'll get it to break up (just) nicely at not too high a volume but don't expect lots of crunch. 

I get that they're cheaply made but from the outside it also looks and feels great. It's light and portable too. I think the search for my ultimate home amp might be over and I've had a bucket load.

Thanks for giving your two cents mate –– apologies if I came across any way 12" snobby –– I'm just trying to test the water and this still sounds very much up my street. 

At this rate I'm going to end up with a stereo setup... ! 

Deadman

You didn't at all mate, I was on about me. Go and try em out if in doubt would be my obvious recommendation. It's certainly my best 'home' purchase though.  Good luck.

dazzajl

Will be very interested to hear your thoughts if you get to try them back to back. The Artisan looks really interesting, I really like the 15 and I’ve yet to hear of
anyone who’s played the AC and not liked it. 

ecc83

Just to drive the nail in further! My son had an A30 head at home for a weekend (VERY hard to prize from his grasp!) and even into a V30 and a VERY sensitive Vitavox, he could control it and as you know, it was capable of upsetting the whole street should he have wanted to!

Dave.

Shipwreck

Went into my local store this afternoon (with my pedalboard and crippling hangover) to try the pair out. Similar size and weight (although the Bstar felt a little heavier). Sadly the Blackstar lit up but didn't work so it's has been put in for repair. I'm obviously quite gutted as the Bstar has less demos online and on paper seems quite exciting for me. Also confirmed why I never buy off the shop floor unless its at cut-price.
 

As for the Vox? Great punchy clean tone. Really sounded great with delay and chorus. Wasn't overwhelmed with how it performed with a Big Muff/Twin Twelve (I use quite bassy drive pedals) and I wonder if the 10" speaker had much to do with this. 

So... still not any closer. Hoping to try the Blackstar next week... 

ecc83

Just to be clear, is this the 10W SE Blackstar?

Dave.

uncledick

Shipwreck said:

As for the Vox? Great punchy clean tone. Really sounded great with delay and chorus. Wasn't overwhelmed with how it performed with a Big Muff/Twin Twelve (I use quite bassy drive pedals) and I wonder if the 10" speaker had much to do with this.

Imho, Vox amps don't work with Big Muff type pedals - the front end just goes mushy.  I use an OCD with my AC15.

jeztone2

Shipwreck said:

Hi all, 

I'm in the market for a portable, living-room style valve combo and I've narrowed it down to two. I'll of course try both out in due course but would be interested to know if anyone has any experience with them.

In short: I lean towards British amps and use pedals for all of my dirt tones. My current 'main' amplifier is a Blackstar Artisan 30 2x12 and I'm after something with a similar gain structure but within a small form factor. I've been lusting over those cranked Bernard Butler Vox tones as of late so the AC10 has been on my radar for a while... but I've just realised Blackstar (who, for all their shoddy PR and QC - did make a belter of an amp with Artisan) have released 10 watt anniversary replicas of their bigger amps.

I'm aware both aren't exactly high end –– this is more of an accompaniment/alternative to my main amp than an all out replacement –– but I am keen to hear your thoughts and experiences with them if possible.

Ta!

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking at a used Artisan 15. I love the Vox AC15C2 I borrowed. But the build on them could be better IMO.

sjo89

I had an AC10 for a nearly a year and whilst I had it I absolutely loved it. It was super light for a valve amp. It sounded great - tonnes of character. PLENTY of bass, theres a lot of BS about 10" speakers - trust me, they have bass to spare. And it was LOUD too, loud enough to gig with in a hard rock band and it took pedals great.

Sadly, the honeymoon period ended abruptly when one day it was clear there was a tube issue after it only being gigged a few times and only being maybe 9 months old. The amp tech proceeded to tell me the AC10 is infamous for tube issues as the cab is so small that the speaker is mm away from tubes, so when its cranked they're getting rattled to hell and chances are tubes would be going on it every year. I was gutted, but I didnt want an unreliable amp that would be costing more in repairs than the unit itself so moved it on.

Just got an AC15 which is just as magic. Hoping the same issues dont present themselves.

allen

I have played a few AC10s. They sound way better than their cheap build quality would have you believe.

To me, they sound better than the AC15, the preamp is different.

I played an AC10 in Wunjo one day and a couple of people commented on the great tone.

Mind you, I bought a Bad Cat after thinking about the AC10 for about 2 years.

I have a bad feeling that I'll end up buying the 10 in any case as it just sounds so good in such a small package.