Vintage Tele restoration - and a vote on colour

GoldenEraGuitars

meltedbuzzbox said:

Looks to be level pegging. 
I guess the compromise is shell pink?

With yellow spots.

The Blobbycaster

meltedbuzzbox

lonestar said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

Looks to be level pegging. 
I guess the compromise is shell pink?

With yellow spots.

The Blobbycaster


I'm sure a man of your Calibre would be able to provide such a thing with a crinkley bottom themed scratchplate?

TADodger

I know the decision has been made but, FWIW, i'm in the leave it as is camp

GoldenEraGuitars

meltedbuzzbox said:

lonestar said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

Looks to be level pegging. 
I guess the compromise is shell pink?

With yellow spots.

The Blobbycaster


I'm sure a man of your Calibre would be able to provide such a thing with a crinkley bottom themed scratchplate?

Absolutely. I’m game for it. But only if we can put a picture of good old Noel somewhere on it too. Maybe put his face on the top of the knobs

stickyfiddle

@EricTheWeary can confirm Cropper’s esquire as rosewood and blonde... it’s in the Smithsonian

impmann

Leave it as is... it tells the guitar's story. With another refin, it will just be yet another "original" restored guitar - I don't doubt Wez's ability (and please don't take offence at this chap - as its not meant with any malice or disrespect) but it will always be fake ageing... and that ageing *ages* differently to real wear and tear.

I think it looks ace.

EricTheWeary

stickyfiddle said:

@EricTheWeary can confirm Cropper’s esquire as rosewood and blonde... it’s in the Smithsonian

The Smithsonian have his original Esquire and his 1970s ( maple board) Tele both of which are blonde but not the 1960s Tele that he used on tour with Otis Redding and the MGs and appears in a lot of the film and photos of the time. Steve Cropper in the sixties in his mohair suits and turtle neck tops looked so cool ( although he must have sweated so much on stage). 
I think he used the Esquire on a lot of the classic recordings so that's probably the more important guitar. He kept a Telecaster in open G in the studio because Otis wrote in open G although I don't know if that's the same Telecaster that also went out on tour. 
But a rosewood board Tele needs a pale body either way!
The Rory Gallagher one was very white. Apparently later refinished in green and then cream so it's still in Donal Gallagher's collection in the cream finish. 

ICBM

impmann said:

Leave it as is... it tells the guitar's story. With another refin, it will just be yet another "original" restored guitar - I don't doubt Wez's ability (and please don't take offence at this chap - as its not meant with any malice or disrespect) but it will always be fake ageing... and that ageing *ages* differently to real wear and tear.

In fact, if the decision is to refinish it in blonde, I would leave it *un*aged and allow nature to take its course rather than fake it.

GoldenEraGuitars

impmann said:

Leave it as is... it tells the guitar's story. With another refin, it will just be yet another "original" restored guitar - I don't doubt Wez's ability (and please don't take offence at this chap - as its not meant with any malice or disrespect) but it will always be fake ageing... and that ageing *ages* differently to real wear and tear.

I think it looks ace.

A nicely refinished nitro guitar doesn’t have to be aged. If it’s well done (which it would be) then the nitro will start to wear and chip with regular usage quite quickly. 

impmann

EricTheWeary said:

But a rosewood board Tele needs a pale body either way!
The Rory Gallagher one was very white. Apparently later refinished in green and then cream so it's still in Donal Gallagher's collection in the cream finish. 

Yup...Donal still has is.

impmann

And...

http://www.rorygallagher.com/#/archives/guitars/tele_white

meltedbuzzbox

impmann said:

EricTheWeary said:

But a rosewood board Tele needs a pale body either way!
The Rory Gallagher one was very white. Apparently later refinished in green and then cream so it's still in Donal Gallagher's collection in the cream finish. 

Yup...Donal still has is.

note the corrison the control knobs but the rest of the guitar, specifically the paint, looks relatively unscathed. 

impmann

Yup - and that guitar was a gigged *a lot* by someone with highly corrosive sweat.

EricTheWeary

impmann said:

Yup - and that guitar was a gigged *a lot* by someone with highly corrosive sweat.

That's on its third paint job though, not sure how much it was gigged with that finish. 

Fender do a white-blonde on some of their reissue stuff but I don't know how authentic to the period that actually is . Sometimes you see blonde finishes that get very yellow and look a bit school custard. I'm sure Wez will do something sympathetic whatever. 

guitars4you

WezV said:

rsvmark said:

What's the story behind 'smuggler' - never heard of it before

Just a silly name for the weight relief fender added under the guard in 67.

The story goes that wood was getting heavier and this was the first attempt to do something about it.  It wasn’t considered that effective so stopped quite soon.  The thinline followed shortly after.

However, its removed 6oz so far, which is more than I expected from the story above and should put the guitar about 8lb when done

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/23276-vintage-vault-1967-fender-smugglers-tele

additional info

Fender ran with a limited edition Custom Shop Tele a short while ago - As someone mentioned earlier, it is effectively a forerunner to a Thinline Tele

WezV

impmann said:

Leave it as is... it tells the guitar's story. With another refin, it will just be yet another "original" restored guitar - I don't doubt Wez's ability (and please don't take offence at this chap - as its not meant with any malice or disrespect) but it will always be fake ageing... and that ageing *ages* differently to real wear and tear.

I think it looks ace.

That’s exactly why I re-diverted the conversation from a simple colour choice to a decision between authentic wear in the wrong colour or imitation wear in the right colour.   We had been having the same conversation and decided to open it up as a discussion

i am confident I can get close, but the point is still a valid one.

ICBM said:

I would leave it *un*aged and allow nature to take its course rather than fake it.

I have taken this approach before.  The market does not seem to appreciate it as much and most prefer a bit of appropriate wear.   I know in building restoration the approach is to replace  old with new and keep the repair visible and show the progress of history, but i am not sure that is what the guitar world wants


I think you have both got to the crux of the dilemma and discussions we were having behind the scenes.  It has been helpful to get a bit of input from other.   .

We have decided on aged white/blonde.   I am not going to debate the name of the colour too much. We know the shade(s) we are after from other aged late 60's/early 70's examples.  That is what I will work to.

.....


I have another vintage restoration to start soon and will be applying similar principles.   Its a 50's les paul custom where the multi-ply binding has been replaced by 4 thick strips of white/cream binding oversprayed with vintage white.  it was also refinished a long time ago. Many parts have changed but its all vintage wood  and pickups  The challenge is the same as the tele and the dilemma is very similar too... put it back to original spec - try not to lose the mojo of a hard life gigging.  

https://i.imgur.com/tYRq9G8.jpg

ICBM

WezV said:

I have another vintage restoration to start soon and will be applying similar principles.   Its a 50's les paul custom where the multi-ply binding has been replaced by 4 thick strips of white/cream binding oversprayed with vintage white.

Ah... I assumed the binding had just been painted over since I thought I could see the stripes where it's chipped on the tip of the cutaway horn.

That's a difficult one too. Given the potential value it becomes an important financial decision as well as just a taste one - even compared to a '67 Tele. At least there is only one colour choice .

It needs to lose that nasty modern pickguard at the very least!

WezV

EricTheWeary said:

 Sometimes you see blonde finishes that get very yellow and look a bit school custard.

the examples we are focusing on have more hint of tobacco than custard

I will be using a white paint as my base and mixing with tobacco and amber to get the final colour.   like all the vintage examples, it won't be one solid  colour.  getting the variation between light and dark right  will be key to the success of the new finish

see exhibit a

guitars4you

lonestar said:

As @WezV has said.. the next chapter has begun. Someone refinished that guitar already and butchered the innards. At least it’s on the right path to being period correct once again. I refinish vintage guitars every month from a variety of eras. It’s a joy to get them back to the original colour scheme with fresh nitro.

The red looks great but there no point in getting sentimental about someone else’s choice of paint colour and the apparent use of a rather large belt buckle  

Ive just sent a dirty blonde off to Germany. Here’s a few pics... 

https://i.imgur.com/H2C4JBO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zXHlJcj.jpg

Im easy either way on the final choice, it’ll be great to see the outcome.

is that the one I think it is ?

WezV

ICBM said:

WezV said:

I have another vintage restoration to start soon and will be applying similar principles.   Its a 50's les paul custom where the multi-ply binding has been replaced by 4 thick strips of white/cream binding oversprayed with vintage white.

Ah... I assumed the binding had just been painted over since I thought I could see the stripes where it's chipped on the tip of the cutaway horn.

That's a difficult one too. Given the potential value it becomes an important financial decision as well as just a taste one - even compared to a '67 Tele. At least there is only one colour choice .

It needs to lose that nasty modern pickguard at the very least!

My first assumption was the binding had been painted, because who would do this.  But yeah, its been replaced... front and back.   If you look closely you can see the treble side of the fretboard has been replaced by 2 thinner strips too.  the bass side has a few cracks so I assume the replaced binding did similar earlier in its life.

Colour - we were thinking sunburst


Pickguard - i'm working on it