Can you make a less expensive Strat feel/play/sound as good as a Custom Shop?

guitars4you

The quality of budget and mid range priced guitars has never been so good - Go back to 1962 and after an original Strat, there was very little choice below that price point - What was available can hardly be considered quality - Today a whole host of options below the price of a Custom Shop model and most are eminently playable

However, if you wish to compare a Custom Shop model to a lower priced example - I find you'll notice a bigger difference when you go from the Custom Shop model back to the lower priced version, as against the other way round - Can you justify the difference is a different story - Hard to justify it, if you can't afford it, or don't wish to spend the appropriate funds - If you can't notice the difference, or feel very little difference, then all well and good as you've just saved a fair few pounds

As a final note - In 1962 a Strat was around £150 - today that equates to just over £3000 - About the same price today as a Custom Shop version - So effectively the same grade of guitar has not changed in price over the years

ICBM

guitars4you said:

The quality of budget and mid range priced guitars has never been so good - Go back to 1962 and after an original Strat, there was very little choice below that price point - What was available can hardly be considered quality

What do you mean, a Watkins Rapier isn't as good as a Fender? You'll be grateful for what you can afford son!

munckee

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

I had a squier standard strat and is better than any custom shop I have ever played...

I jad a classic player 50s which was better than american specials.  I played a brand new US standard strat which was probably better.  I now have an 86 MIJ strat which I prefer to both which I put down to the age but might be wrong.

ICBM

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

Not at the moment, although I did have a Highway One which was OK but a bit average, and before that a couple of US Standards, one was better than the other but definitely not as good as a CS.

I now have a Matsumoku Aria 'Strat' which is OK, but a bit average or not quite as good as that. I love it because it's the same as the first electric guitar I owned, but it isn't as good as a CS Fender. There's a CS Fender in the shop just now which is fantastic, but it's a colour I'm not a fan of (Olympic white, sorry...) and it's also over two grand which is more than I want to spend on a Strat.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

The quality of budget and mid range priced guitars has never been so good - Go back to 1962 and after an original Strat, there was very little choice below that price point - What was available can hardly be considered quality

What do you mean, a Watkins Rapier isn't as good as a Fender? You'll be grateful for what you can afford son!

exactly - and you know how many started of on such guitars or a Hofner galaxy etc

impmann

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

Read the second post on this thread.

I know your post is meant as humour, but when you actually walk the walk ie spend a day in Coda trying literally around 20 guitars with £4k in your sky rocket to buy a CS Strat, and you don't buy a Fender... I'm not saying the CS guitars weren't good, they were VERY VERY good, but did they offer me a personal uplift in feel/quality/sound over what I already owned... no, they did not.

All these things are subjective. I'm not saying that there isn't a CS Strat out there that suits me better or that I would prefer to what I already have, but so far... nope. That old Jap Strat sits alongside two PRS, a couple of Gibsons and an old Tele in my collection - and I have no plans to replace it.

dazzajl

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

Rather the same as saying is there anyone with a CS guitar that will say it’s no better than a mid range version? 

Its so hard to define better with something so subjective. I’ve played but never owned CS Fenders. I have owned a guitar ‘Masterbuilt’ upstairs by Steven Stern in the Gretsch CS. It is the most amazing guitar and now back with @TheMarlin ;

The build, the feel, the quality, the sound and the incredible aging but not reliced job were all out of this world. Better by miles than anything I’ve owned or played. But we never really bonded. So for me, the much much cheaper guitars I have now are better. 

Not better instruments in any way, just better suited to this old hack

meltedbuzzbox

impmann said:

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

Read the second post on this thread.

I know your post is meant as humour, but when you actually walk the walk ie spend a day in Coda trying literally around 20 guitars with £4k in your sky rocket to buy a CS Strat, and you don't buy a Fender... I'm not saying the CS guitars weren't good, they were VERY VERY good, but did they offer me a personal uplift in feel/quality/sound over what I already owned... no, they did not.

All these things are subjective. I'm not saying that there isn't a CS Strat out there that suits me better or that I would prefer to what I already have, but so far... nope. That old Jap Strat sits alongside two PRS, a couple of Gibsons and an old Tele in my collection - and I have no plans to replace it.

As the third party involved in that visit the 2 main things I noted in the comparison. 

The mojo pickups in the mij were in a different league to the custom shop guitars
The mij neck is super broken in and feels nice and effortless to play. A new CS Fender tends to have sticky nitro neck. 
(My CS Jazzmaster still has that a bit after 3 years and a lot of playing)

I do think that a particular strat they had, a Journey man in blonde had potential but I would have changed the bridge and the pickups. I have found with my CS guitars they all get better the more you play them.
But on the day it was down to @impmann and it was the PRS 305 that won the day and to be fair its the biggest sounding strat I have ever heard. Its still a dentists show piece though :-P 

rossi

In a sense a custom shop means all the hard work has been done for  you .It has the fine well chosen neck,frets levelled and edges rolled and certain well worn feel  ,the nice body ,all nitro and then ruined .The pickups are good ,well chosen, the fittings all top quality and the specs to suit you .Easy peesy .It doesnt actually mean you will love it or bond with it as its still just another guitar.I would love one but it still may not end up as my favorite guitar .

Jonathanthomas83

rossi said:

... then ruined .

Haha! Love it.

gibsongretschfan

ICBM said:

gibsongretschfan said:

My 90’s American Std Strat has been out of action for about 7 years now and this thread has just given me the kick in the arse I needed to get it back up to scratch. Just ordered a Wudtone Vintage trem conversion and are now looking for some new tuners (non-locking suggestions welcome).

The stock tuners on these are very good, and difficult to replace cleanly because of the unique fitting to the headstock. I wouldn’t change them.

Yeah I was on the look out for some easy fit gotohs (like their ash tray bridge for a modern tele conversion). To be honest I never really had a problem with the tuners but they aren’t a patch on the Gotohs on my Kotzen Tele.

gibsongretschfan

Although I do have some decisions to make about the fretboard, usual flake, nothings sharp but by the time I get some fretwork done I’d imagine there will be a lot more coming off. @ICBM ;

ICBM

There's definitely no easy-fit alternative. Firstly the headstock bore is 10mm not 8mm so vintage-style tuners won't fit without using conversion bushings, and secondly the 2-pin screwless fitting is unique to these tuners, even compared to other screwless ones which have a different footprint, so at best you'll need to drill new screw holes.

I've been through all the alternatives I can think of with many customers and there's really no good solution other than the original type.

gibsongretschfan

ICBM said:

There's definitely no easy-fit alternative. Firstly the headstock bore is 10mm not 8mm so vintage-style tuners won't fit without using conversion bushings, and secondly the 2-pin screwless fitting is unique to these tuners, even compared to other screwless ones which have a different footprint, so at best you'll need to drill new screw holes.

I've been through all the alternatives I can think of with many customers and there's really no good solution other than the original type.

I wish we had had this conversation a couple of nights ago as it would have saved a lot of googling and pulling out of hair!

AuldReekie

ICBM said:

Hattigol said:

Is there anyone out there who owns a non CS Strat and doesn't feel it 'blows CS Strats out of the window'? 

Not at the moment, although I did have a Highway One which was OK but a bit average, and before that a couple of US Standards, one was better than the other but definitely not as good as a CS.

I now have a Matsumoku Aria 'Strat' which is OK, but a bit average or not quite as good as that. I love it because it's the same as the first electric guitar I owned, but it isn't as good as a CS Fender. There's a CS Fender in the shop just now which is fantastic, but it's a colour I'm not a fan of (Olympic white, sorry...) and it's also over two grand which is more than I want to spend on a Strat.

I've played that CS Strat and it is a great guitar, but I wouldn't swap it for my Levinson Blade R2 which is just right for me.  Dont restrict yourself to Fenders if you are looking to upgrade a strat to CS level

Rocker

At some stage in the manufacturing of anything, you reach a point of diminishing returns. It takes a lot of man hours (cost) for a small improvement in performance. 

It is the same for shotguns. In the side by side market a Purdey or a Holland & Holland is better built than almost any other shotgun in the world. And they cost a lot of money to buy. Handle one and you know why they cost what they do. 

A guitar is no different to any other product. Labour costs are high in the USA. A CS guitar requires a lot of labour to build it. I honestly think it is unlikely to get an ‘ordinary’ guitar up to the standard of a CS model. You can change the hardware on the ordinary guitar but how much of the original is left and how much fettling is needed to get it to the CS standard? 

Nobody can answer the question posed by the OP. The only answer is for the OP to play a lot of guitars including CS models. And to buy the guitar that feels, plays and sounds right to him. Not me or anyone else. To him alone. Take it home and play it. And enjoy it. 

Dave_Vader

I have never played a custom shop strat as good as the shiny tanglewood in my avatar

(Full disclosure - I have never played a custom shop strat and the tanglewood in my avatar is a bit of a dog but looks very pretty)

Boromedic

As if by magic the shop keeper appeared:


I guessed which was the CS, however there isn't much in it and in the dirty soundclip, the Squier sounds every bit as a Strat should to me. Some of that is the player (superb) and some in the pickups etc., but it's not far away for all that either. I'm sure the CS feels better to play and is better quality of course, but there isn't much in it. 

Boromedic

Rocker said:

At some stage in the manufacturing of anything, you reach a point of diminishing returns. It takes a lot of man hours (cost) for a small improvement in performance. 

It is the same for shotguns. In the side by side market a Purdey or a Holland & Holland is better built than almost any other shotgun in the world. And they cost a lot of money to buy. Handle one and you know why they cost what they do. 

A guitar is no different to any other product. Labour costs are high in the USA. A CS guitar requires a lot of labour to build it. I honestly think it is unlikely to get an ‘ordinary’ guitar up to the standard of a CS model. You can change the hardware on the ordinary guitar but how much of the original is left and how much fettling is needed to get it to the CS standard? 

Nobody can answer the question posed by the OP. The only answer is for the OP to play a lot of guitars including CS models. And to buy the guitar that feels, plays and sounds right to him. Not me or anyone else. To him alone. Take it home and play it. And enjoy it. 

Yep, same is true for anything really, and I can relate this to bikes. I've ridden road bikes with and against those with full carbon, Shimano Di2, aero shapes, pro gear and beaten them on a £500 GT aluminium bike. Same with mountain bikes, my Alloy HT keeps up with the best carbon full suspension bikes around costing 5x as much. The aforementioned will be better quality and probably last longer and ride better (possibly) and you will be able to tell that when you handle them. However you can still do the same job on something that costs a lot less. I love the engineering in high end bikes, just can't justify the costs! 

chris78

I’ve owned a sold a quite ridiculous amount of guitars over the last ten years, mainly Fender and F style. I’ve had mim, us, cs, masterbuilt, vintage, mjt, other brands, the lot.

MJT is about luck, but I have built an MJT (broadcaster clone) that I very foolishly sold. It was frankly better than my cs nocaster, which is my go to the grave guitar. FWIW, I used musikraft wood, which in my experience is a step up from the MJT stuff, especially the necks. Why did I sell it? Because it wasn’t a “real” Fender. Yup, I’m an idiot.

Modding a mex? I’ve not played/owned one that was anywhere near cs quality, even after wasting a load of money on upgrades. Maybe they exist, I’ve not really experienced it. It doesn’t mean they aren’t very good guitars for the money, just not “there.” Mark at guitars4you is spot on in his post.

The other range that came very close for me was the American vintage stuff. The 64 Teles were truly special and I don’t really know why I don’t still have one (cue GAS). The 65 strats were equally awesome and I also had a very lovely 59 strat. The difference on these vs cs simply came down to relicing in my view. 

I’m sure there are amazing masterbuilt and they look incredible, especially if you see a Dale Wilson from a relicing point of view. I didn’t find them to play better though, simply because the team built stuff is that good. 

Theres something great about the right vintage guitar. I still dream about a 65 strat I had. Most aren’t great though, don’t stay in tune, are harder to play and need work, which kills the value if you have it done as they aren’t as “original”. 

In my experience, team built custom shop is where it’s at and in my view, these are the best guitars Fender has EVER made. If you’ve fallen in love with a particular guitar, and you can afford it, get it. You’ll spend a lot of money trying to find it and you’ll never be quite satisfied otherwise.