Decibel level

johnnyurq

Didn't want to fess up to the long extension and muffling the mic hihg jinks in case any venue peeps were tuning in and sussed why it stoppped working.

johnnyurq

chrispy108;201879" said:

Make sure the soundman has heard all of your sounds (clean, overdrive, lead whatever) during the soundcheck. No point just sound checking with your quiet sound then kicking it in and busting the limit.

Interestingly this is my approach since years as I use VG/Variax and GR kit as well as traditional rigs and most sound dudes bar one or two gave the 1000 yard stare and only let me sound check clean ish and OD tones then moving on swiftly.

Luckily I spent a lot of time balancing tone volumes and acoustic models etc so it never sounded like ass.

maltingsaudio

Thing is '@mazzag as its a Battle of the bands thing all bands are in the same boat however you've done the gig how did it go? 

chrispy108

I can see why the soundman doesn't want to go through 1000s of sounds @johnnyurg, but you should definately check your loudest and your quietest.

johnnyurq

@chrispy108

That is quite an assumption you've jumped to there.

I wasn't meaning 1000's just a few pertinent examples because EQing for a clean and dirty electric tone whilst ignoring lead sounds and acoustic/synth tones I didn't feel was in any way helpful to me or them.

Then they look surprised and pissed when summat they never expected happening despite bieng told and me recommending checkin a handful of various patches.

chrispy108

Yup, sorry wasn't aiming that as a dig at you at all. In your case definitely can see why you'd want those sounds checked.

But, from the point of view of the soundguy, imagine how many guitarists he's had who want to show of their 15 different, but basically identical overdrives, 3 chorus pedals, 4 delays etc etc in a soundcheck.

Perhaps take a written list of your various patches you can leave with him? Would show you know what you're talking about?

matt1973

Comfortable talking level = 65db

100w marshall at full tilt = 120db 

Pain = 125db

In band terms this is gonna feel very quiet if you play at loud practice levels. The other factor is where in the venue should it not exceed this limit?

If there's a cut-off device, 2 suggestions:

1) Have a run through playing as quiet as you possibly can, win the sound man over and play the gig as best you can.

2) Win the sound man over, bring a couple of very long mains extensions, figure out what power points aren't hooked up to the limiter, run the extensions from wherever that is and ROCK OUT.

chrispy108

To the OP, you want to try and explain to the soundman that you want the cleans to be quieter than the distorted sounds.

I've seen gigs where the soundman spent the whole set riding the faders trying to balance the guitar sounds, somewhat taking away the impact of the changes.

Little bit of communication goes a long way.

johnnyurq

chrispy108;202079" said:

Yup, sorry wasn't aiming that as a dig at you at all. In your case definitely can see why you'd want those sounds checked.But, from the point of view of the soundguy, imagine how many guitarists he's had who want to show of their 15 different, but basically identical overdrives, 3 chorus pedals, 4 delays etc etc in a soundcheck.Perhaps take a written list of your various

No worries I wasn't being nippy about it and thought it just common sense really.

I get what you mean with some overzealous types but I am mid 40's and not prone to trying to show off (blending in is best) plus the gigs I mention it was no more than 2 or 3 bands on the bill.

Having ran sound for other bands and looking after my old bands sound I get the whole annoying peeps being a pain, but to avoid surprises 5 minutes to head them off is time well spent. Plus being paid to do a job doesn't mean huffing at well meaning newbies (or oldies in my case) unless they are being proper douches in which case then rant away.

I am always respectful and as helpful as possible to any sound person knowing how thankless it can be and so to ensure all goes smoothly. But an awful lot get very defensive and do as little as possible to help you and them have a good night. Which in turn should make for a good gig for all and most importantly the punters.

Some bands can be assholes and I have witnessed this first hand but in my decades of gigging over the years the most cynical and worst culprits have been jaded sound guys. I also saw this as crew working in Theatre, although the more experienced and truly pro dudes were always a joy to work with.
.

Cirrus

chrispy108;202104" said:

To the OP, you want to try and explain to the soundman that you want the cleans to be quieter than the distorted sounds.

I've seen gigs where the soundman spent the whole set riding the faders trying to balance the guitar sounds, somewhat taking away the impact of the changes.

Little bit of communication goes a long way.

This goes back to the Live sound thread where I said I like the bands performance to define itself - Here. 

The soundman shouldn't have to do that sort of stuff. He should be able to get you to play a section of song as a soundcheck, set the guitar level relative to the drums and vocals that makes sense, then all your other sounds fall into place because you've taken the time to get your relative volumes sorted - quiet bits are quiet, loud bits are loud, solos get their own boost. That way you're in charge of your performance, you're not leaving the musical impact in the hands of someone who's winging it.

Of course good soundmen will still ride the mix as they feel appropriate but you make their job so much easier when you incorporate the dynamic changes into your own performance.

ICBM

Cirrus said:

This goes back to the Live sound thread where I said I like the bands performance to define itself - Here. 

The soundman shouldn't have to do that sort of stuff. He should be able to get you to play a section of song as a soundcheck, set the guitar level relative to the drums and vocals that makes sense, then all your other sounds fall into place because you've taken the time to get your relative volumes sorted - quiet bits are quiet, loud bits are loud, solos get their own boost. That way you're in charge of your performance, you're not leaving the musical impact in the hands of someone who's winging it.

Of course good soundmen will still ride the mix as they feel appropriate but you make their job so much easier when you incorporate the dynamic changes into your own performance.

Exactly.

The band should know how to mix themselves fairly accurately just using their own backline relative to the drums - and that includes amp EQ as well as volumes. In an ideal world the soundman should only need to mic everything, set the levels on the desk at the start and leave it like that for the whole set, and it should sound great. Relying on the soundman to fix your bad tone, volume or dynamics is just poor musicianship really.

MazzaG

Wow this blew up! Thank you for all of the advice guys.

@Multingsaudio The gig hasn't happened yet, it's on Saturday.

I measured the db level of me practicing in my room (albeit using an iPhone app) and the practice volume was 90db+!

I have found this:

It's a young band playing the same room a couple of years ago, there's no way they were capped so there's either been a volume cap implemented since then, or they measure the 90db from a certain point in the venue.

chrispy108

Fully agree ICBM and Cirrus, the problem I'm talking about arises when the sound man sees your dynamics as "mistake" and tries to correct it from the desk. If you don't tell him that you've got deliberate quiet bits, he might try and smooth them out, thinking he's helping you out.

MazzaG

chrispy108 said:

Fully agree ICBM and Cirrus, the problem I'm talking about arises when the sound man sees your dynamics as "mistake" and tries to correct it from the desk. If you don't tell him that you've got deliberate quiet bits, he might try and smooth them out, thinking he's helping you out.

I will make a point of telling him, it's actually more vital for our bassist to get the point across as he switches from a clean sound to his Big Muff quite a lot.

chrispy108

Defo worth mentioning about the bassist. If you've got anything other than the 'norm' going on mention it.

I always made a point of telling soundmen that although I had a four string bass, it was tuned down to C, so they were prepared for the low-end. Took a few lights out when the soundman didn't listen...