Power amp or cheap valve amp for modeller

gearaddict

John_A said:

gearaddict said:

Is it just me, or does the Matrix sound by far the worst thing in this comparison?

Hope, not just you   Although the K10 sounds pretty awful too.  I'm a huge Helix fan, but the real amp won that shootout for me   L2 didn't sound half bad though

Yeah, if I had to buy something on the basis of that demo, it would be the L2. Sounds good.

John_A

I'd buy an Engl amp

gearaddict

Well, yeah...but of the other options

The modelling options really don't come out of that comparison well at all. Not sure why - in my setup, the modelled pre-amp is really close to the valve one, either through the power section of the valve amp or a solid state power amp. FRFR is very different but, I don't understand why there is such a big difference between the Engl preamp and the modelled pre-amp through the GT1000.

John_A

So may variables, position relative to the mic, the are things are set-up.  I know my Helix through my DXR sounds better than that 'in that particular video'  and the K10 get's great reviews so I assume that should sound a lot better than it did.  I wouldn't read an awful lot in to a comparison like that, just work with whatever you have 'til it sounds good

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Is it just me, or does the Matrix sound by far the worst thing in this comparison?

[Comparing Speaker Setups for Modeling Amps - L2M, Q10, GT1000FX]

No, not just you - although the QSC is very poor too, and the Line 6 is not great. I don't even like the sound of the Engl, but it's better than the other three...

gearaddict said:

It's a shame he didn't try running the Helix into the fx return of the Engl - I'd have been interested to hear that, compared to the straight amp and the other power amp options.

Yes. The demo was essentially useless without that, since the poor sound of the other three could have been from the Helix.

gearaddict said:

This demo is interesting:

[Line 6 PowerCab 112 vs FRFR - A (helpful?) Comparison]

They both sound terrible, just differently.

The surprising thing considering all these are supposed to be "full range" is that none of them have any top end, even compared to a normal guitar amp in a room.

I'm really not a Luddite, and I really want this kind of solution to work, but all I see is a complicated way of sounding much worse than just plugging into an amp - whether that's a valve amp, a digital modeller or even just a decent analogue solid-state amp.

robinbowes

Both of those demos are rubbish. They appear to be recording them with the camera mic, and they all sound dreadful.

It's really not all that hard to get a great sound from a modeller + a FRFR speaker.

I use a Helix which I does direct to the FoH, and use the PA monitoring for my on-stage. When using our own PA, this is HK Audio Linear 5 L5112XA tops and L2000A subs, with more L5112XA as wedges. Sounds fantastic!

R.

Slartibartfarst42

If you have a really good modeller, you need a FRFR system to get the best out of it. If it's a cheaper modeller, you might want a different option to colour the tone a little. I use an Atomic AmpliFire and I find that FRFR is the best. Many people believe that's a PA speaker but the reality is that most PA speakers aren't actually FRFR so the results sound worse than expected. What you need is something that is genuinely FRFR. I use a Laney IRT-X and it's absolutely superb. It's tiny but surprisingly loud. It's ideal at home or for small gigs but for larger gigs it becomes a stage monitor and also route my Atomic through the PA.

John_A

Disagree with a lot of that

Slartibartfarst42 said:

If you have a really good modeller, you need a FRFR system to get the best out of it. If it's a cheaper modeller, you might want a different option to colour the tone a little.

Different things work for different people for different reasons.  Lots of people using Helix or AxeFX with a valve amp and cab and getting great results.  Just use whatever makes you happy 

Slartibartfarst42 said:

 something that is genuinely FRFR. I use a Laney IRT-X and it's absolutely superb. It's tiny but surprisingly loud. It's ideal at home or for small gigs but for larger gigs it becomes a stage monitor and also route my Atomic through the PA.

Agree, there's probably very little outside of uber expensive studio monitors that are really FRFR, a better description would probably be Wide Range Wide Response and that includes the IRT-X

NelsonP

Slartibartfarst42 said:no

If you have a really good modeller, you need a FRFR system to get the best out of it. If it's a cheaper modeller, you might want a different option to colour the tone a little. I use an Atomic AmpliFire and I find that FRFR is the best. Many people believe that's a PA speaker but the reality is that most PA speakers aren't actually FRFR so the results sound worse than expected. What you need is something that is genuinely FRFR. I use a Laney IRT-X and it's absolutely superb. It's tiny but surprisingly loud. It's ideal at home or for small gigs but for larger gigs it becomes a stage monitor and also route my Atomic through the PA.

Interesting to hear about atomic amplfire plus irt-x working well for you. I've been eyeing one of those for a while plus various other FRFR speakers (alto, yamaha etc).

Laney also have a new FRFR 1 x 12 out which looks interesting 
https://www.laney.co.uk/products/lfr-112/

Has anyone on here tried one yet?

gearaddict

NelsonP said:

Slartibartfarst42 said:no

If you have a really good modeller, you need a FRFR system to get the best out of it. If it's a cheaper modeller, you might want a different option to colour the tone a little. I use an Atomic AmpliFire and I find that FRFR is the best. Many people believe that's a PA speaker but the reality is that most PA speakers aren't actually FRFR so the results sound worse than expected. What you need is something that is genuinely FRFR. I use a Laney IRT-X and it's absolutely superb. It's tiny but surprisingly loud. It's ideal at home or for small gigs but for larger gigs it becomes a stage monitor and also route my Atomic through the PA.

Interesting to hear about atomic amplfire plus irt-x working well for you. I've been eyeing one of those for a while plus various other FRFR speakers (alto, yamaha etc).

Laney also have a new FRFR 1 x 12 out which looks interesting 
https://www.laney.co.uk/products/lfr-112/

Has anyone on here tried one yet?

Looks very interesting...and not ruinously expensive...probably a similar idea to the Line 6 powercab but without the speaker modelling.