Reality Check

dorisandjess

I am selling a set of Alnico V pickups from a late seventies Yamaha SG. I didn’t think they would be worth much but my efforts to value them have unearthed just one previous sale.
https://reverb.com/item/964917-yamaha-sg2000-pickups-and-pots
£290!! That can’t be right can it? I am sceptical and I know that there is an effort by one particular Yamaha enthusiast to inflate prices, though this appears to have nothing to do with him. Can anyone provide any insight into pricing these?

iain.reverb

dorisandjess said:

I am selling a set of Alnico V pickups from a late seventies Yamaha SG. I didn’t think they would be worth much but my efforts to value them have unearthed just one previous sale.
https://reverb.com/item/964917-yamaha-sg2000-pickups-and-pots
£290!! That can’t be right can it? I am sceptical and I know that there is an effort by one particular Yamaha enthusiast to inflate prices, though this appears to have nothing to do with him. Can anyone provide any insight into pricing these?

They sold for about 75% of that price.

richardhomer

Anything like this could be ‘very’ desirable to someone who owns a guitar which is original, except for the pick-ups.

I wouldn’t be afraid of being a bit optimistic with your pricing.

Dominic

look at the prices of some of the old Burny Dry Z pickups !

sweepy

There are many things you see on the s/h market  that make you have a proper wtf moment 

impmann

There are plenty of examples of people asking all kinds of crazy money for things... AND THEM NOT SELLING.

Its happening a lot on eBay right now. Some people are advertising stuff for prices that are just ridiculous with no intention of them ever selling - or rather taking the 'long game' approach. To explain:

Person A advertises item for huge sum.

Person B looks to sell their similar thing, looks at price of Person A's item and prices theirs accordingly.

Person C sees the prices of A & B's items and thinks "wow, they've gone up in price" and starts talking about it online.

Person B takes an offer on their item, less than their original asking price but higher than they would have done thanks to Person A.

Person D then looks at sold prices and thinks "Person C is right, the prices are on the rise. I'll cash mine in."

Eventually this model builds until the "huge sum" asked by Person A doesn't look so unreasonable.

This is happening *a lot* with the classic car market, the antique market, the retro market and anything where the value isn't quite as clear cut as selling a six month old item that's common.

Its called speculation and has been happening for decades. Then factor in shill bidding, which still happens on eBay to drive up prices and certain people are taking the piss.

EXAMPLE: - look around on eBay (and Reverb) at Gibson L6S guitars. These have always been (in recent years) an inexpensive route into buying 1970s Gibsons, as they aren't for everyone. For a long time they hovered around the £600-900 mark. Then all of a sudden they rose about three years ago. The prices asked seem to be around the £1200 mark if you research through eBay etc. So perceived wisdom would be that £1200 is "about right". However, there is a black all original one for sale for £795 that the owner just can't find a home for - its been on Facebook for months. 

FWIW, when you peel back the layers and look at genuine sale prices (as @iain.reverb shows - thanks chap) the true picture can be different.

iain.reverb

impmann said:

There are plenty of examples of people asking all kinds of crazy money for things... AND THEM NOT SELLING.

Its happening a lot on eBay right now. Some people are advertising stuff for prices that are just ridiculous with no intention of them ever selling - or rather taking the 'long game' approach. To explain:

Person A advertises item for huge sum.

Person B looks to sell their similar thing, looks at price of Person A's item and prices theirs accordingly.

Person C sees the prices of A & B's items and thinks "wow, they've gone up in price" and starts talking about it online.

Person B takes an offer on their item, less than their original asking price but higher than they would have done thanks to Person A.

Person D then looks at sold prices and thinks "Person C is right, the prices are on the rise. I'll cash mine in."

Eventually this model builds until the "huge sum" asked by Person A doesn't look so unreasonable.

This is happening *a lot* with the classic car market, the antique market, the retro market and anything where the value isn't quite as clear cut as selling a six month old item that's common.

Its called speculation and has been happening for decades. Then factor in shill bidding, which still happens on eBay to drive up prices and certain people are taking the piss.

EXAMPLE: - look around on eBay (and Reverb) at Gibson L6S guitars. These have always been (in recent years) an inexpensive route into buying 1970s Gibsons, as they aren't for everyone. For a long time they hovered around the £600-900 mark. Then all of a sudden they rose about three years ago. The prices asked seem to be around the £1200 mark if you research through eBay etc. So perceived wisdom would be that £1200 is "about right". However, there is a black all original one for sale for £795 that the owner just can't find a home for - its been on Facebook for months. 

FWIW, when you peel back the layers and look at genuine sale prices (as @iain.reverb shows - thanks chap) the true picture can be different.

You're absolutley right as far as prospective pricing goes. To use your L6 as an example https://reverb.com/uk/price-guide?query=l6s  We have only sold one for north of 1k and that was five days ago. The top end values can depend on condition and current market scarcity. IE 2 excellent examples priced 1k plus, fist one to drop the price will sell. Only 1 excellent example in the market and you can hold your ground pricing wise.

Bridgehouse

@impmann is spot on. It's happening right now with Peavey T-40 basses. A few years back they regularly popped up on eBay for a few hundred quid, maybe £350 if it was a mint example. It really wasn't that long ago that they were considered bass trash and would struggle to make even £200.

But go onto eBay right now and you'll see two listed for the best part of £900 each. In the completed listings, there they are again, repeatedly offered, alongside one which was listed for auction at £500 multiple times but no bidders each time. 

Right at the bottom is a 'sold' example for £880 or so - but it doesn't actually seem to be sold. Hmmm. 

guitars4you

Bridgehouse said:

@impmann is spot on. It's happening right now with Peavey T-40 basses. A few years back they regularly popped up on eBay for a few hundred quid, maybe £350 if it was a mint example. It really wasn't that long ago that they were considered bass trash and would struggle to make even £200.

But go onto eBay right now and you'll see two listed for the best part of £900 each. In the completed listings, there they are again, repeatedly offered, alongside one which was listed for auction at £500 multiple times but no bidders each time. 

Right at the bottom is a 'sold' example for £880 or so - but it doesn't actually seem to be sold. Hmmm. 

the issue is that it is almost a free reign to speculate and see what happens as the seller has no/little overheads - one person tries it and every other follower thinks this price is the norm, whilst hoping to find a buyer - As the OP states a reality check is required - Yet one day they may get lucky

I agree, I would not want to try and ask over £350/400 for such a guitar/bass - So am I out of touch or is the 'e-bay' private seller out of touch

Bridgehouse

guitars4you said:

Bridgehouse said:

@impmann is spot on. It's happening right now with Peavey T-40 basses. A few years back they regularly popped up on eBay for a few hundred quid, maybe £350 if it was a mint example. It really wasn't that long ago that they were considered bass trash and would struggle to make even £200.

But go onto eBay right now and you'll see two listed for the best part of £900 each. In the completed listings, there they are again, repeatedly offered, alongside one which was listed for auction at £500 multiple times but no bidders each time. 

Right at the bottom is a 'sold' example for £880 or so - but it doesn't actually seem to be sold. Hmmm. 

the issue is that it is almost a free reign to speculate and see what happens as the seller has no/little overheads - one person tries it and every other follower thinks this price is the norm, whilst hoping to find a buyer - As the OP states a reality check is required - Yet one day they may get lucky

I agree, I would not want to try and ask over £350/400 for such a guitar/bass - So am I out of touch or is the 'e-bay' private seller out of touch

The T-40's get talked up quite a lot on line - lots of people commenting on how they are American made classics, and really undervalued etc. 

Of course, this brings out the nostalgia and eventually translates to high speculative prices on eBay - thing is tho, the reality is they were heavy, cumbersome and average sounding at best. And not worth that much...

Philly_Q

Looking on the bright side (not my usual perspective, it feels weird...), if you have an L6S or Peavey T-40 and you'd be perfectly happy with the "old" prices of £800 or £350, then you should be able to get a quick sale, shouldn't you?

... or will people regard your item as suspiciously cheap? 

Bridgehouse

Philly_Q said:

Looking on the bright side (not my usual perspective, it feels weird...), if you have an L6S or Peavey T-40 and you'd be perfectly happy with the "old" prices of £800 or £350, then you should be able to get a quick sale, shouldn't you?

... or will people regard your item as suspiciously cheap? 

The T-40's were pretty slow movers even at £350 - they aren't bad basses, there are just lighter and more usable alternatives of similar quality for similar money IMHO. It's the 'made in USA' thing that's pushing them up..

iain.reverb

Bridgehouse said:

Philly_Q said:

Looking on the bright side (not my usual perspective, it feels weird...), if you have an L6S or Peavey T-40 and you'd be perfectly happy with the "old" prices of £800 or £350, then you should be able to get a quick sale, shouldn't you?

... or will people regard your item as suspiciously cheap? 

The T-40's were pretty slow movers even at £350 - they aren't bad basses, there are just lighter and more usable alternatives of similar quality for similar money IMHO. It's the 'made in USA' thing that's pushing them up..

I've started to stockpile these guys to corner the market for the same reason 
https://reverb.com/item/10875704-peavey-usa-predator-black-maple

Philly_Q

So basically nothing's selling, but now it's not selling at higher prices than it wasn't selling before.

prlgmnr

Philly_Q said:

So basically nothing's selling, but now it's not selling at higher prices than it wasn't selling before.

And then when frustration sets in after months of not selling, people sell to a shop for far less than they were trying to sell it for, so someone can go to the shop and buy the same thing for even more.

vale

it's entirely symptomatic of the terminal asset-bubble-speculation addiction that is choking western neoliberal economies in these times.

the old argument for capitalism used to be that it catalysed creativity & promoted productivity, the so-called buccaneering halcyon days of 18th &19th century industry (halcyon days for factory owners, less so for workers & slaves).
the one modern neoliberals always hark back to as proof that the system should be considered ideal-borderline-sacred.

but when the capitalist mandate (maximise capital return on capital investment) becomes so perverted & degraded (& detached from maintaining a meaningful relationship with the workforce that fuels it) that capital will always generate a greater return from investment in asset speculation (that benefits a few capital holders solely) than investment in creative & productive activity (that benefits a few capital holders and the mass of workers mutually), investment funding will inevitably shift into 'useless' speculation & away from 'useful' productive industry.
as a consequence industry will wither, employment decline & living standards fall for most.

too much 'gambling' & not enough 'doing' made jack a game-over.boy.
& to be balanced against his is the simultaneous sad reality that uneccessary production of unsustainable &/or toxic consumables is polluting the planet to the point of inhabitability.

vintage or new, do or don't do, masturbation or sex, mensch oder swine...

frau meinhof siging out.

* allergy advice. this product was created in a facility that manufactures truth alongside irony.

* & it's bloody hot.

vale

Philly_Q said:

So basically nothing's selling, but now it's not selling at higher prices than it wasn't selling before.

yes but... by using accountancy trickery, if you valued the total stock assets held of a company based on last year's asking prices & then compared them to a valuation of the total stock assets held of that same company based on today's asking prices, then (in capitalism unicorn-land) the current market value of the total assets held by that company has 'increased'. how very productive & useful of them.

no one does anything, no one produces anything, no one exchanges anything...
& yet the company can still potentially claim a net increase in its worth as a total asset entity to shareholders & investors.

perhaps we are nearing the point where warehouses full of over-insured stock will be burning down in mysterious circumstances faster than new factories are being be built?

impmann

vale said:

Philly_Q said:

So basically nothing's selling, but now it's not selling at higher prices than it wasn't selling before.

yes but... by using accountancy trickery, if you valued the total stock assets held of a company based on last year's asking prices & then compared them to a valuation of the total stock assets held of that same company based on today's asking prices, then (in capitalism unicorn-land) the current market value of the total assets held by that company has 'increased'. how very productive & useful of them.

no one does anything, no one produces anything, no one exchanges anything...
& yet the company can still potentially claim a net increase in its worth as a total asset entity to shareholders & investors.

perhaps we are nearing the point where warehouses full of over-insured stock will be burning down in mysterious circumstances faster than new factories are being be built?

Not as daft as you think...

I heard tale of a container ship that had an accident in mysterious circumstances. On board was a lot of electronics equipment that had been produced in the far east and had been at sea for *months* because it was cheaper than landing it and warehousing it. It was clear that what was on board was going to be VERY hard to sell...

Some of the containers were swept off the deck into the open seas in a gale... oddly they were mainly electronics equipment.

gordiji

vale said:

it's entirely symptomatic of the terminal asset-bubble-speculation addiction that is choking western neoliberal economies in these times.

the old argument for capitalism used to be that it catalysed creativity & promoted productivity, the so-called buccaneering halcyon days of 18th &19th century industry (halcyon days for factory owners, less so for workers & slaves).
the one modern neoliberals always hark back to as proof that the system should be considered ideal-borderline-sacred.

but when the capitalist mandate (maximise capital return on capital investment) becomes so perverted & degraded (& detached from maintaining a meaningful relationship with the workforce that fuels it) that capital will always generate a greater return from investment in asset speculation (that benefits a few capital holders solely) than investment in creative & productive activity (that benefits a few capital holders and the mass of workers mutually), investment funding will inevitably shift into 'useless' speculation & away from 'useful' productive industry.
as a consequence industry will wither, employment decline & living standards fall for most.

too much 'gambling' & not enough 'doing' made jack a game-over.boy.
& to be balanced against his is the simultaneous sad reality that uneccessary production of unsustainable &/or toxic consumables is polluting the planet to the point of inhabitability.

vintage or new, do or don't do, masturbation or sex, mensch oder swine...

frau meinhof siging out.

* allergy advice. this product was created in a facility that manufactures truth alongside irony.

* & it's bloody hot.

Very well put . The blame can be directed towards central banking.

Stuckfast

Well, there was a T-40 kicking around at the studio for a while, and I thought it was great. But then I only had to play it sitting down.

brooom

Dominic said:

look at the prices of some of the old Burny Dry Z pickups !

DRY Z are Greco/Maxon. And they are consistently amazing pickups in my opinion (well quite frankly in lots of people's opinions).

With that said, if I had to buy an aftermarket set of pickups, I'd just go with seymour duncan antiquities.