Gain from amp or pedals

fastonebaz

I've always thought that the core gain sound should come from your amp and and drive pedals used are really just there to add a touch more for solos. 

I want my amp to have a mix of clean and gain so I can use it without any pedals when I haven't got them to hand or just want a quick blast.   So a single channel clean amp wouldn't work for me. 

However I see on here so many pedal boards loaded with various drive pedals and discussions about touring bands using clean channel with the venue amps and get gain from pedals,  I'm wondering if perhaps I'm  missing out and actually I should forget about the gain in my amp and use a blend of drive pedals instead.

It's not so much a question of whether I'm happy or not with the gain sound on my amp (let's face it we're never truly satisfied and constantly GASSING!), I'm just wondering whether I'm genuinely missing out on some incredible rich thick liquid lead tones without realising it. 

Hmm?

bingefeller

I always liked a clean, or cleanish, amp and getting the gain from pedals.  IMO there is more versatility doing it this way because you can stack different pedals for different sounds.

darius

For me, gain comes from a tube amp.
Its what they do.

I have no idea how players with dozens of pedals to setup have any time left to actually play.

ICBM

Both.

I like valve amp overdrive, but only up to heavy crunch - beyond that it gets too muddy or mushy. I like pedal overdrive/distortion/fuzz into a clean amp or into a crunchy amp. I never use the pedal to push the amp harder - that also causes mud/mush - only to add more dirt. I don't use clean boost pedals (or overdrive pedals used as clean boosts).

I generally prefer two-channel amps - clean and crunch - but I can live with single-channel. A volume or EQ boost on the amp is useful but not essential.

Three pedals is enough. Fuzz, midrange overdrive/distortion and scooped distortion - in that order. With three pedals and two channels I can get any sound I want.

dindude

I used to be a two channel amp guy and couldn’t get my head around why people used pedals for OD / Dist. For the last 10 years though it’s been single channel amps and pedals all the way.

The moment it changed for me was I was playing in a covers band and had a Marshall DSL, covered a lot of bases for the rock (not heavy rock) we were doing. We started to play The Fly by U2 and whilst I could crank the delay up, I just couldn’t get that sweet rounded OD sound, all I could get was abrasive Overdrive. Enter a Tubescreamer on a slightly broken up clean and hey presto, sweet city. I suddenly got it.

I’ve said it before. Solid state devices kicking the shit out of warmed valve amps is THE sound of electric guitar and predates two channel amps with cascading pre amp gain. Think Hendrix with fuzz pedals, Brian May with treble booster into AC30 etc. These sounds are so much sweeter to my ears than preamp gain. Although this is the way to go for articulate high gain IMO.

MattFGBI

This really depends on what you're playing. For me, it's always amp. I mostly play heavier stuff and I have found no pedal that even comes close to an Engl or 5150 on full tilt .

ecc83

There are, to my mind, two basic pedal types? (and massive "crossover"!).

Type 1 is a essentially a gain boost that drives the first stage amp triode harder, something that does not really happen even with a very hot humbucker.

Type ll pedals have an internal distortion/eq circuit all their own and are designed to produce a "stand alone" distorted OD sound.

A certain company of my acquaintance make both forms and the T2 models can be "backed off" to perform as a simple boost.  The top of range models also deliver an OD, emulated signal suitable for DI to a PA or recording rig.

End of shameless spam!

Dave.

BluesyDave

Valve amps do sound great  just driven enough to get a bit of hair, after that (for me) its pedals.  For what I play pedals give more control over the relationship between overall volume and drive.

Fez

I have been using clean channel and pedals for a while but I have a hankering for amp distortion at the moment and have been trying a clean boost in the loop. Pedals do give you flexibility and control but some amps just have it when it comes to the classic rock sound.

zepp76

I love going straight into my JTM45, thankfully it has a PPIMV so I can pretty much crank it but if I want to get heavier then a Strymon Sunset gets put in front and I have plenty of fun dialling in a driven sound, that pedal is pretty much my best pedal purchase to date, hours of fun can be had messing around with it's switching capabilities.

chrisjac2

Tube gain sounds great  and when you find that sweet spot nothing comes close BUT in a live environment pedals give you a consistent sound and volume night after night. with lots of variation. To get the tones I get from the pedal board would need an extra 10k worth of amps to get close. I used to try to control gain from the guitar volume but stomping on a pedal is just easier

dazzajl

Amp gain has always been my
playground. But then I live in the world of crunch and riffs more than searing lead tones.

Could it be as simple as good drive for one or two stings at a time is probably best from pedals. Three or more strings and a well cooked amp is hard to beat 

TTBZ

ICBM said:

 I never use the pedal to push the amp harder - that also causes mud/mush - only to add more dirt.

What about tubescreamers or some variation which pretty much everyone in metal uses for boosting and tightening up their amp drive ?


I've pretty much always been an amp dirt player, using a single channel amp set to a mid gain rhythm tone then clean up with the guitar. Boost with a TS for heavier stuff and EQ in the fx loop for solos. I've considered going back to pedals especially now I'm without an amp - I like the idea of being able to get "my" sound with pretty much any clean rehearsal or backline amp and don't have to worry about the amp being in its sweet spot. Being able to have the post-dirt lead boost and delays without the faff of FX loop is appealing as well.

Thing is it just feels wrong as I never use true clean tones and I've never played a pedal that has quite the same punch/feel/harmonic overtones (insert other buzzwords) as the real thing. And despite the sheer number of MIABs out there, my favourite tone is a cranked JCM800 or 1987x, which I've still never really heard a pedal get that close to replicating.

ICBM

TTBZ said:

ICBM said:

 I never use the pedal to push the amp harder - that also causes mud/mush - only to add more dirt.

What about tubescreamers or some variation which pretty much everyone in metal uses for boosting and tightening up their amp drive ?

Yes, I use them like that - but not to push the amp harder. I use the pedal to add dirt, and a tiny bit of level if necessary (since it causes more compression, so you usually need a little level boost to keep the peaks the same) - not to slam the input of the amp harder, which is more like using more gain on the amp and causes mush rather than tightness... at least for me.

fastonebaz

But suppose you use a single channel amp, and then 2 or 3 stacked drive pedals to shape your gain, when you have to instantly go from full dirt to full clean, it's it a bit tricky to stomp 3 pedals off in a millisecond?  Or do you now need a switcher/looper in the board as well?

TTBZ

That's why I don't think I'd ever bother with stacking pedals, surely better off just getting one decent pedal that gives you the drive sound you're after in the first place. When I tried stacking my Rat and TS it just ended up being too compressed and noisy anyway, despite so many people saying it's a good combo. The pedals just seem to sound so "narrow" compared to amp gain. I've not played many modern MIABs though so happy to be proven wrong.

ICBM

fastonebaz said:

But suppose you use a single channel amp, and then 2 or 3 stacked drive pedals to shape your gain, when you have to instantly go from full dirt to full clean, it's it a bit tricky to stomp 3 pedals off in a millisecond?  Or do you now need a switcher/looper in the board as well?

I never normally use all three at the same time - two at most. If they're next to each other and they have sensible footswitches (ie Boss) then it's quite easy. Even if you have to do them separately it can be quite quick, you're unlikely to need the full-on sound right up to the beat and nothing afterwards.

shaunm

zepp76 said:

I love going straight into my JTM45, thankfully it has a PPIMV so I can pretty much crank it but if I want to get heavier then a Strymon Sunset gets put in front and I have plenty of fun dialling in a driven sound, that pedal is pretty much my best pedal purchase to date, hours of fun can be had messing around with it's switching capabilities.

You know you need to fall down the fuzz rabbit hole. The JTM and a strat with a fuzzface inbetween them is it’s own sound.

terada

When I can crank my 50 watt orange, then that all day long. But for the other 99.999999% of the time its a pedal!

Slartibartfarst42

I think it depends on the amp and the music. For a lot of amps there's a limit to how much gain you can add before it gets mushy and if you do have an amp that will do really high gain well, it will generally be a bit limited in its versatility. The advantage of a clean amp with pedals is that it's far more versatile. It also gives you easy access to many types of distorted tones rather than just what one particular amp does (Marshall, Orange etc.). I always used to swear by amp gain but these days I'd be equally happy with pedals. 

shaunm

I’m probably going to add no insight here that hasn’t been said. 

I prefer an amp that is working hard enough so that when I turn on my fuzz pedals it’s a nice thick sound. I don’t like the amp working so hard that when I turn my fuzz on that it just sounds like one big fart. Also, because I use modulation the amp needs to have enough clarity to be able to get the sounds I like with chorus, phaser and Flanger. If the amp is compressing too much I don’t like the modulated sound.

I don’t like totally clean amps with a fuzz going into it. So things like a silver face fender twin, I just don’t like the tone with fuzz pedals. 

In short - get a wet dry set up