Gain from amp or pedals

Rickrevs

hi all...for me its more convenience, in a classic rock covers band i need to cover a lot of different sounds quickly so i went the processor route (boss gt 100) as i didn't want to tap dance and have unreliable  patch cable power supply issues
if i was in a blues band i would probably use just the amps as i prefer the natural sound and ride the volume control for solos
but if your after more than a crunch and want to get quickly to clean and back...pedals all the way

Lestratcaster

Always use amp distortion though I do use a tubescreamer to tighten it up and push that amp more!

PolarityMan

amp distortion is at least 8 times better (scientific fact)

fastonebaz

I suppose what I'm really asking is,  how does Vai get his dirt tone? 

57Deluxe

both

John_A

fastonebaz said:

I suppose what I'm really asking is,  how does Vai get his dirt tone? 

Some drive from the amp and a DS-1 and tubescreamer, sometimes together sometimes separately

Have a read of this:

http://guitargearfinder.com/guides/beginners-guide-steve-vai-tone-gear-effects/

impmann

TBH, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' - as has been said, there is something amazing about pushing a valve amp into distortion. However, most modern 'valve' amps have an awful lot of gubbins in them to 'help' the valves overdrive... the unkind would say that they have overdrive and distortion boxes built in... I'm not that unkind, but its a valid comment.

If you plug into a late 1960s Plexi, its surprising how little "gain" there actually is - even flat out, that roar is not like any distortion box I've ever heard. And take away the actual 'volume' aspect, its crispy around the edges, slightly compressed in the mids and a touch flabby in the bass (in a good way)... but you have to "work" at it to get those classic rock sounds. Theres a reason Hendrix used a fuzz box into one, and if you've ever played through a JTM45, you'd start believing that Clapped-out used a treble booster to get those sounds...

I learnt to play in a suburban terraced house with grumpy neighbours - so turning valve amps up to get drive wasn't an option. So I learnt how to get the sounds I wanted using boxes.

When eventually I started playing live with bands it was inevitable that I'd apply the same techniques to get my 'live' sound.

I still feel happier having the control of pedals - stacking gain is a fairly recent thing for me, but can get even more sounds from an outwardly simple set up.

I've gigged with a blazing amp and controlling the sound with the guitar. I can do it and in some instances its great fun - however it does have its limitations ("if your guitar is on ten, and your amp is on ten and you need that extra... push over a cliff, where can you go"?). Some find those limitations to be liberating, and embrace them - good for you - but I still prefer to use a pedal or three, *in conjunction with* the volume and tone controls, as I can get closer to the sounds in my head.

JD50

I set the Vintage Gain channel on my Tremoverb to cleanish, so that the harder I hit the strings the more gain/ or turn volume down on my guitar to clean it up.

I do like a TS type on top for some stuff & a Big Muff for some lead.

Lebarque

I like a single channel amp on the edge of break-up, then push it over the edge with peds 

fastonebaz

 Thanks all. In all seriousness I was half expecting people to reveal some amazing secret handed down through generations of axemen that stacked dirt pedals blitz amp gain.  But what I'm  reading is simply it's all down to personal taste and it's about 50/50 split.

Very interesting cheers

TTBZ

What's the verdict on using analogue pedal gain (amp in a box etc) into a clean digital amp sim acting as the pedal platform? Something I've never actually tried but seeing as most complaints about digital are the sounds that try to replicate analogue drive tones it might work? Might try a few pedals into Amplitube at the weekend.

webrthomson

Generally, I like amp gain and normally I don’t run any pedals before them. The only exception here are recto / ubershell / Framus Cobra type amps where I’ll sometime tighten the bass with a TS or SD1, normally without actually adding any gain.

I’m probably more likely to attenuate that stick a pedal in front of an amp, although a good EQ in the loop can work wonders too.

GazMoz

Depends on what you wan't really. I've done and still do occasionally do both, pedals and or a drive channel. If you're after heavier tones then the amp is usually best, but for more bluesy tones pedals work great. Pedals have gotten so much better in the last 10 years or so that we're spoilt for choice.... That being said the drive sound of a great amplifier can be hard to beat. I will say this; for practice at lower volumes pedals win hands down. Valve amplifiers need volume to be at their best. 
Good luck on the eternal quest that is great tone :-)   

Roland

57Deluxe said:

both

I use both amp and pedal distortion, both individually and together. The way I set things up my overdriven amp sound is quite warm and fat. Something like a Tubescreamer, with it's nasal EQ, tightens up the overdriven amp, and give a cutting roughness to a clean amp.

randella

Anyone who's old enough like me to remember Bespeco drive pedals will probably understand why I prefer the drive in my sound to come from the amp.  It's just learned behaviour in some people's cases, certainly in mine.

Two amp channels (Mesa Mini Rectifier) - green channel set to distort if you spank the strings, otherwise there's a bit of compression more than anything else.  Red channel with a nice lively drive.  Master volume set so I can monitor on stage, so usually high enough to warm up the amp but not to mush up the power section.

Boss SD-1 for a bit more on either channel, EQ in the loop for a solo boost.  This has done me right for years now.

crunchman

TTBZ said:

What's the verdict on using analogue pedal gain (amp in a box etc) into a clean digital amp sim acting as the pedal platform? Something I've never actually tried but seeing as most complaints about digital are the sounds that try to replicate analogue drive tones it might work? Might try a few pedals into Amplitube at the weekend.

Kemper takes pedals really well.  Don't have much experience of the others.

Reverend

My experience is that most of the best heavy tones are a combination of amp and pedal. 

slacker

I personally like an amp on full tilt but if I need cleans I won't use two amps. At home use pedals that work with a clean one, out I use pedals that work with the amp.

spirit7

Both.  

For heavy music I've not yet found a pedal that works as well as a decent tube amp's gain channel.

But it's also nice to have the versatility of an overdrive or two to get a decent palette of sounds.  There is no right or wrong answer!

LordOxygen

I use the ultra gain channel on my Marshall DSL5c for heavy / metallica type stuff, which it does well, but that's about all it does well.
I have a boss ds1, moore rage machine, ehx soul food that i use through the "classic gain" channel, classic gain means clean at the levels i use at home.
Without the pedals id have to have a modelling amp with lots of knobs, flashing lights amd instructions to read which isnt something im keen on.
(That said a boss katana is very tempting.)