Transcribing

thegummy

I'd never been into transcribing guitar before so decided to get in to it and started off with a section of Justin Sandercoe's website that has a number of audio clips of increasing difficulty/complexity and answer sheets to check against.

I've tried a few of varying difficulty and I always get the right notes in the right octaves but often on different strings at different frets.

Is there any way around this? 

Do people listen for the subtleties in the timbre? That sounds much more difficult than just listening for pitch, especially if the song uses a nylon guitar like the last one I tried.

Blueingreen

Mostly I don't even try, tbh.  Once I've got the notes, I try to find a fingering that works for me.  Sometimes you know that, eg, a bent string ought to be an unwound 3rd not a wound 4th, but usually things are not so obvious.  If you read transcriptions of the same solos by different professional transcribers they usually vary quite a bit in suggested fingering.  I quite often amend them to fingerings that fit me better.

mburekenge

It's just practice! That's why it's such a good exercise, you really develop your ear for nuance as well as pitch. 

Lestratcaster

I transcribe every week (doing songs with learners) so I have to make sure its as accurate as possible. Sometimes though you may get the note correct its not in the correct register on the fretboard. So the note may be a C but where is it exactly on the fretboard on the recording? The only exception is if I'm doing a "simplified beginner" version that is a bit easier (e.g open strings instead of fretted) but still allows them to play the tune and its recognisable.

thegummy

Lestratcaster said:

I transcribe every week (doing songs with learners) so I have to make sure its as accurate as possible. Sometimes though you may get the note correct its not in the correct register on the fretboard. So the note may be a C but where is it exactly on the fretboard on the recording? The only exception is if I'm doing a "simplified beginner" version that is a bit easier (e.g open strings instead of fretted) but still allows them to play the tune and its recognisable.

Any tips you give to help them detect where it is?

Is it really just listening to the subtle timbre differences? If so, how about if there's effects on it, does that not make it near impossible?

57Deluxe

transcribing is the transgression to playing

bwets

thegummy said:

Any tips you give to help them detect where it is?

Is it really just listening to the subtle timbre differences? If so, how about if there's effects on it, does that not make it near impossible?

If you transcribe a bit more of the piece sometimes it's easier to work out which position it's in. I find I can tell the difference between strings but sometimes it's just really hard/impossible! 

thegummy

bwets said:

thegummy said:

Any tips you give to help them detect where it is?

Is it really just listening to the subtle timbre differences? If so, how about if there's effects on it, does that not make it near impossible?

If you transcribe a bit more of the piece sometimes it's easier to work out which position it's in. I find I can tell the difference between strings but sometimes it's just really hard/impossible! 

Interesting, that suggests that it can be more of working out what the position will be based on what it likely was according to the other notes played rather than actually hearing the specific position. That would make sense.

thegummy

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

bwets

thegummy said:

bwets said:

If you transcribe a bit more of the piece sometimes it's easier to work out which position it's in. I find I can tell the difference between strings but sometimes it's just really hard/impossible! 

Interesting, that suggests that it can be more of working out what the position will be based on what it likely was according to the other notes played rather than actually hearing the specific position. That would make sense.

Yeah, it's like detective work. If you can find a clip of them playing it live that can really help!

57Deluxe

thegummy said:

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

you'll spend all your time either creating it or decoding it and never get round to playing it!

Roland

57Deluxe said:

thegummy said:

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

you'll spend all your time either creating it or decoding it and never get round to playing it!

That’s not my experience. I transcribe music to help me understand and remember, and communicate it to other members of the band. Practice means that you get better at reading Tab and notation.

Keefy

Roland said:

57Deluxe said:

thegummy said:

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

you'll spend all your time either creating it or decoding it and never get round to playing it!

That’s not my experience. I transcribe music to help me understand and remember, and communicate it to other members of the band. Practice means that you get better at reading Tab and notation.

I transcribe the music into standard notation. If a lick is less than straightforward, I sometimes add the position (i.e. the fret where your first finger should go) in roman numerals.

thegummy

Keefy said:

Roland said:

57Deluxe said:

thegummy said:

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

you'll spend all your time either creating it or decoding it and never get round to playing it!

That’s not my experience. I transcribe music to help me understand and remember, and communicate it to other members of the band. Practice means that you get better at reading Tab and notation.

I transcribe the music into standard notation. If a lick is less than straightforward, I sometimes add the position (i.e. the fret where your first finger should go) in roman numerals.

That's interesting actually, I'd actually find that a lot easier but it's just made me realise that it would be impossible to use standard notation to specify where on the fretboard to play each note.

thegummy

57Deluxe said:

thegummy said:

57Deluxe said:

transcribing is the transgression to playing

What does that mean?

you'll spend all your time either creating it or decoding it and never get round to playing it!

Justin says (and I've heard it said elsewhere) that transcribing can really help with playing.

I know that years ago when I started playing tunes by ear it really helped my musicianship in general (not on guitar though and I wasn't actually writing anything down).

Lestratcaster

thegummy said:

Lestratcaster said:

I transcribe every week (doing songs with learners) so I have to make sure its as accurate as possible. Sometimes though you may get the note correct its not in the correct register on the fretboard. So the note may be a C but where is it exactly on the fretboard on the recording? The only exception is if I'm doing a "simplified beginner" version that is a bit easier (e.g open strings instead of fretted) but still allows them to play the tune and its recognisable.

Any tips you give to help them detect where it is?

Is it really just listening to the subtle timbre differences? If so, how about if there's effects on it, does that not make it near impossible?

Try to work out what string its played on, obviously the thinner strings give a treblier note whereas the lower strings is more bassier. Then look at the phrase if its from a certain scale.

thegummy

Lestratcaster said:

thegummy said:

Lestratcaster said:

I transcribe every week (doing songs with learners) so I have to make sure its as accurate as possible. Sometimes though you may get the note correct its not in the correct register on the fretboard. So the note may be a C but where is it exactly on the fretboard on the recording? The only exception is if I'm doing a "simplified beginner" version that is a bit easier (e.g open strings instead of fretted) but still allows them to play the tune and its recognisable.

Any tips you give to help them detect where it is?

Is it really just listening to the subtle timbre differences? If so, how about if there's effects on it, does that not make it near impossible?

Try to work out what string its played on, obviously the thinner strings give a treblier note whereas the lower strings is more bassier. Then look at the phrase if its from a certain scale.

Yeah I think if the strings are far apart it might be more obvious but when it's the 2nd string vs 3rd it's a very subtle difference.

When I saw the first post and the wisdoms I thought "ah, maybe it's just not something really done by ear alone" but there are other replies suggesting they can hear the exact position.

The fact that there's no mention of this problem on Justin's website makes me think it's not a common problem.

I wonder if the fact I have years of ear training from playing the keyboard makes it more likely I'd be finding the not at random whereas a newcomer to music - like it's designed for - might be more likely to choose the ones from a specific pattern.

Keefy

Once I have the music down, I can look at each phrase to see where on the fretboard it makes sense to play it. Just because the original player fingered a phrase a certain way, it doesn't mean I have to follow that fingering. Sometimes it suits me to play it a different way.

Roland

Keefy said:

... Just because the original player fingered a phrase a certain way, it doesn't mean I have to follow that fingering. Sometimes it suits me to play it a different way.

This is very true. Sometimes, on your guitar through your amp, it sounds better played on a different string. Sometimes a phrase benefits from different fingering. Sometime you realise that the guy who wrote it, at the age he wrote it, wasn’t as good as you are.

Alto

Keefy said:

Once I have the music down, I can look at each phrase to see where on the fretboard it makes sense to play it. Just because the original player fingered a phrase a certain way, it doesn't mean I have to follow that fingering. Sometimes it suits me to play it a different way.

Absolutely and more fun as well. I guess it depends on the music. Manouche style would probably sound better as played because of the accents on the down stroke on the string changes. But if everybody always played it the same way that would be no fun

I hope you are enjoying the transcribing @thegummy - great for honing the ears. Justin Sandercoe is a great educator. I assume you're using Transcribe? I reroute music through my computer using Loopback so I can get music in form any source. 

And on a transcribing note, if anybody has any tips on Ngoni playing, I'm all ears! I'm really enjoying Bassekou Kouyate at the moment.

thegummy

Alto said:

Keefy said:

Once I have the music down, I can look at each phrase to see where on the fretboard it makes sense to play it. Just because the original player fingered a phrase a certain way, it doesn't mean I have to follow that fingering. Sometimes it suits me to play it a different way.

Absolutely and more fun as well. I guess it depends on the music. Manouche style would probably sound better as played because of the accents on the down stroke on the string changes. But if everybody always played it the same way that would be no fun

I hope you are enjoying the transcribing @thegummy - great for honing the ears. Justin Sandercoe is a great educator. I assume you're using Transcribe? I reroute music through my computer using Loopback so I can get music in form any source. 

And on a transcribing note, if anybody has any tips on Ngoni playing, I'm all ears! I'm really enjoying Bassekou Kouyate at the moment.

Cheers mate.

To be honest I'm finding it hard not to give up on the course because of this issue. I don't actually want to play the pieces, it's purely because Justin advises that it really helps playing but I imagine that might only work if you're getting the same fingerings to learn licks and tricks etc.

Anyone got any insight to ways it will help my playing and why I should stick to it? Or anyone find that it's only really useful if you want to learn how to play a song?