Bah, unsure where to go amp wise...

Tenebrous

Evening folks - Long time no see!

So, just a quick rundown: I've played for 16 years now, and although I pretty much gave up electric guitar a few years back to focus on acoustic, it's come back with a vengeance this year. I'm still rocking the Yamaha 611VFM, but... I'm running it solely through a Yamaha THR10C.

The THR10C is a killer bit of kit, and whatever I go for, I'll keep it 100% as it inspires me to play so much, but still. I want something... More. I've done pretty much everything before. I tried the "home usage valve amps" with the Laney Lionheart & the old Blues Jr, but neither of them really worked for me due to volume limitations. I've tried modellers with direct out recording like the Digitech GSP1101 (?) through a pair of M-AUDIO monitors. I've had more effects working for me than an Instagram model, and to this day the only one I regret selling is the Moog MF104-z (although I did buy it for £470 and sell it for £600, so I can't moan too much).

They all have serious limitations I'd like to avoid as much as possible. My theoretical budget, given I'm moving on quite a bit of audiophile gear to fund this, and my 30th is coming up... Let's say £2.5k. Primary usage will be home recording & low volume jamming, but I would like something I could take out to play with family/friends (should I ever find any to play with, haha).

Things I've considered:

Kemper with a couple of monitors: Speaks for itself - The unit is simply a winner, but I'm entirely unsure of it as something I can go out & play with. Plus, the idea of having all that money tied up in a piece of digital gear, honestly, worries me. I'm sure the Kemper folk have great repairs/warranty service, but still... It's something that concerns me. Also, not having a real cab would be a bit of a bummer, but I'm not sure I could work a proper FRFR into the budget (never mind the footswitch & expression pedals).

JC120 / Yamaha THR100HD with either pedals or a MFX (Boss GT-1000 or Helix FX): Breaks two of the major issues I have with the Kemper (price invested in one unit & having a proper amp I could plug & play into), but at the cost (at least in the JC's case) of overall tonal flexibility/quality. I'm still researching the THR100HD, which looks to be a real interesting piece of kit (that's how I actually re-found  this website after years of taking the guitar more casually ), but my inexperience recording with DI compared to a simple USB connection concerns me somewhat, as I'm unsure what else I'd need... A mixer? Sure, but how much more would I need after that?

Splitting the budget between two rigs for playing out & home/recording: A few ways I could do this. I could pick up something like a second hand Blues Jr & an old ME-50 to give me enough while out & about, & go a bit cheaper on the home setup (like the GT-1000 with a pair of monitors instead of the Kemper). Downsides of this would be having a portable rig I'd not get any use out of unless actually going out, and a lower quality home solution to boot (although honestly, I'd probably be hard pressed to pick out the differences between the GT-1000 and the Kemper anyway, as the majority of my playing is clean).

So, as cheeky as it is to ask, I'm here for some inspiration Do I just sod it all & get a Kemper when I can?

darthed1981

You should at least consider/audition a Boss Katana, costs less than a 10th of your budget but it does everything pretty well that you need.

Tenebrous

darthed1981 said:

You should at least consider/audition a Boss Katana, costs less than a 10th of your budget but it does everything pretty well that you need.

They do look great honestly, as does the Fender Mustang range, but neither would cover my effect needs, so I'd be after something like a GT-1000 or a Helix FX anyway. At that point, I feel I'd be better off just pairing something with those units rather than buying the Katana, I think.

I probably should've mentioned it in my original post (apologies for that), but I really do want to get back into full on soundscaping. I like that the GT1000 has the Delay/Verb/Modulation 500 series built into it, but... I don't know, maybe I could rock a GT1000 into a Katana?

I'll do some more research Cheers.

darthed1981

You will be genuinely surprised what you can do with the Katana, it has about 60 pedals modelled in it.

Dominic

FULL FAT HELIX AND GOOD STEREO FRFR SPEAKER .....will do all you could want

mistercharlie

If you play mostly clean, the Princeton Reverb sounds great at home volumes, especially if you’re an amp-volume-up, guitar-volume-down kind of player. 

 I have one with a 12-inch speaker and a master-volume mod, and it’s perfect at home. Coupled with a Hudson Broadcast and you have clean to dirty completely covered, at any volume. 

Jez6345789

If you have the money then Kemper all the way. 
My one tip when I got mine, getr it from Thomann as they honour the 3-year warranty they come with and they said simply box it up and we will collect and get it back to Kemper. Andertons were very shirty about it at the time and said thats between you and Kemper we only guarantee stuff for 12 months.

So far 4 years on its not missed a beat and got better with all the updates over that time. 

Gigs Great although you need the pedal or something to make it easier to do the patch changes. 
For recording its the nuts you can dig into loads of great profiles which actually suit the song. 

JezWynd

Are the Lionheart and Blues Jnr home valve amps? I think you can find better, or at least 'more suitable'.

Tenebrous

darthed1981 said:

You will be genuinely surprised what you can do with the Katana, it has about 60 pedals modelled in it.

I've been watching demos for the past two hours or so now based on your recommendation. Some of the tones sound pretty bad to my ear, but other players/patches make the amp sound fantastic. Currently watching someone A/B/Y the 100 vs the Artist, and the Artist sounds entirely usable & very flexible.

I wish it had a few more knobs for controlling effects on the amp, but it'd pretty quickly get into ridiculous territory if it did. A minor gripe. Still, definitely a real contender - Especially at sub £500 (although I would need an expression pedal on top as I no longer have one).

& hey, can always add effects to it if I need more So yeah, thanks a lot! I'll keep watching vids on this one.

Dominic said:

FULL FAT HELIX AND GOOD STEREO FRFR SPEAKER .....will do all you could want

The Helix also looks great, but I'm a little green on FRFR speakers, honestly. I'll do some research & check out some more demos of this over the coming week, but every time I've checked out the Helix, I've been impressed.

mistercharlie said:

If you play mostly clean, the Princeton Reverb sounds great at home volumes, especially if you’re an amp-volume-up, guitar-volume-down kind of player. 

 I have one with a 12-inch speaker and a master-volume mod, and it’s perfect at home. Coupled with a Hudson Broadcast and you have clean to dirty completely covered, at any volume. 

Ahh, a wild tube amp appears Honestly, I forgot the Princeton was even a thing. Something like this would also tickle my itch to do some modding/tinkering, so I'll have a good look & see what I feel I could do with it, as well as do some tone comparisons with other recommendations - Thanks!

Jez6345789 said:

If you have the money then Kemper all the way. 
My one tip when I got mine, getr it from Thomann as they honour the 3-year warranty they come with and they said simply box it up and we will collect and get it back to Kemper. Andertons were very shirty about it at the time and said thats between you and Kemper we only guarantee stuff for 12 months.

So far 4 years on its not missed a beat and got better with all the updates over that time. 

Gigs Great although you need the pedal or something to make it easier to do the patch changes. 
For recording its the nuts you can dig into loads of great profiles which actually suit the song. 

Thanks a lot for the store recommendation - I'll be sure to keep that in mind should I decide to go all in. Knowing my luck, though, it'd die on the 37th month like my damned MSI GPU. Also, I'm surprised there's been no Kemper #2 yet... Hmm.

JezWynd said:

Are the Lionheart and Blues Jnr home valve amps? I think you can find better, or at least 'more suitable'.

Well the Blues Jr. not so much, but the Lionheart was a 5 watter that I could get some great sounds on when dialed up to the 3-4 mark, which sadly was also the point where it perhaps became a bit too loud. Perhaps with better isolation & carpets it would've been alright, but heyo.

I'd definitely recommend one to someone who was interested in a 5W combo though.

DrCornelius

Famous last words but since I got my thr100hd I haven't looked at any other amps.

I have had the AX8 and the Helix previously but I'm just too lazy to put the time in to get the most out of them. The THR gives me the Fender and Vox tones I like plus a useful footswitch operated boost and a decent reverb.

It may just be me but I'm not as much of a fan of the heavier tones in the THR100Hd as the ones in the smaller THR5 - they are a lot of fun and just seem a bit smoother than the equivalents in the bigger unit.

its a shame you aren't closer as you'd be welcome to come and road test mine - for whatever reason you don't seem to see too many Thr100 amps in the wild.

munckee

I have a tweed 5f1 fender champ modified from a champion 600 for sale in amps which comparred to the other valve amps you mention is better for home volumes. Has a master volume and a toggle switch to go from silver face to classic champ. You would need pedals as has no effects just two really nice tones. 

I am selling as bought a Princeton reverb and I thoroughly recommend one. Not as home friendly but does work for that and sounds fantastic. 

Tenebrous

So, I did a bit more research on the Katana.

If I wanted to use it with a Helix FX/Boss GT1000 later down the line, I feel like I'd be somewhat inhibited by the lack of a stereo effects loop for recording (but I guess for those times I need dedicated stereo sounds, I could just run a GT-1000 straight into the PC). So far, it's my leading choice - The Katana Artist, with a GT-1000 and a pair of monitors further down the line.

Or maybe...

DrCornelius said:

Famous last words but since I got my thr100hd I haven't looked at any other amps.

I have had the AX8 and the Helix previously but I'm just too lazy to put the time in to get the most out of them. The THR gives me the Fender and Vox tones I like plus a useful footswitch operated boost and a decent reverb.

It may just be me but I'm not as much of a fan of the heavier tones in the THR100Hd as the ones in the smaller THR5 - they are a lot of fun and just seem a bit smoother than the equivalents in the bigger unit.

its a shame you aren't closer as you'd be welcome to come and road test mine - for whatever reason you don't seem to see too many Thr100 amps in the wild.

Still, I appreciate that you'd offer me the chance to demo it!

Honestly, maybe it was because I spent the last few years out of the electric loop & strictly in the acoustic world, but I didn't even know until earlier this week that the THR100HD was a thing. It seems to be such a versatile unit, & from what I've heard, it really sounds great too.

In my mind, it's the closest competitor to the Katana, but the fact it comes in at double the cost of the Katana Artist puts it at a price point where I'd really have to try before I buy. Still, it does have some major benefits though - The stereo effects loop & stereo speakers with dual amps... That's what I was originally thinking with a Roland JC & a dedicated MFX unit,  before finding out the THR100HD was a thing.

munckee said:

I have a tweed 5f1 fender champ modified from a champion 600 for sale in amps which comparred to the other valve amps you mention is better for home volumes. Has a master volume and a toggle switch to go from silver face to classic champ. You would need pedals as has no effects just two really nice tones. 

I am selling as bought a Princeton reverb and I thoroughly recommend one. Not as home friendly but does work for that and sounds fantastic. 

Thanks for the suggestion, but a home volume valve amp doesn't feel like the direction I want to go right now - Especially as I'd have to go extra to get a proper mic & mixer ontop of everything else when I want to record.

I guess I'm committed to the heresy that is an all-digital setup  

olafgarten

Tenebrous said:

So, I did a bit more research on the Katana.

If I wanted to use it with a Helix FX/Boss GT1000 later down the line, I feel like I'd be somewhat inhibited by the lack of a stereo effects loop for recording (but I guess for those times I need dedicated stereo sounds, I could just run a GT-1000 straight into the PC). So far, it's my leading choice - The Katana Artist, with a GT-1000 and a pair of monitors further down the line.

Or maybe...

DrCornelius said:

Famous last words but since I got my thr100hd I haven't looked at any other amps.

I have had the AX8 and the Helix previously but I'm just too lazy to put the time in to get the most out of them. The THR gives me the Fender and Vox tones I like plus a useful footswitch operated boost and a decent reverb.

It may just be me but I'm not as much of a fan of the heavier tones in the THR100Hd as the ones in the smaller THR5 - they are a lot of fun and just seem a bit smoother than the equivalents in the bigger unit.

its a shame you aren't closer as you'd be welcome to come and road test mine - for whatever reason you don't seem to see too many Thr100 amps in the wild.

Still, I appreciate that you'd offer me the chance to demo it!

Honestly, maybe it was because I spent the last few years out of the electric loop & strictly in the acoustic world, but I didn't even know until earlier this week that the THR100HD was a thing. It seems to be such a versatile unit, & from what I've heard, it really sounds great too.

In my mind, it's the closest competitor to the Katana, but the fact it comes in at double the cost of the Katana Artist puts it at a price point where I'd really have to try before I buy. Still, it does have some major benefits though - The stereo effects loop & stereo speakers with dual amps... That's what I was originally thinking with a Roland JC & a dedicated MFX unit,  before finding out the THR100HD was a thing.

munckee said:

I have a tweed 5f1 fender champ modified from a champion 600 for sale in amps which comparred to the other valve amps you mention is better for home volumes. Has a master volume and a toggle switch to go from silver face to classic champ. You would need pedals as has no effects just two really nice tones. 

I am selling as bought a Princeton reverb and I thoroughly recommend one. Not as home friendly but does work for that and sounds fantastic. 

Thanks for the suggestion, but a home volume valve amp doesn't feel like the direction I want to go right now - Especially as I'd have to go extra to get a proper mic & mixer ontop of everything else when I want to record.

I guess I'm committed to the heresy that is an all-digital setup  

You could just get 2 Katanas.

crunchman

Your other option would be the powered version of the Kemper.  For the home recording you go direct into your interface, but you have the power amp if you do want to go into a conventional guitar cab live.

AndrewM

I'd go Kemper Powered (so you can plug into a cab live) and stereo monitors at home. Other than that I've owned a THR100HD and they are FANTASTIC. Although they still need to be fairly loud as they plug into a 1X12 or 2X12. The advantage of Kemper through monitors is that it will sound amazing at a very low volume.

Plus the Kemper comes with all the effects you will need. 

I reckon if you're considering a Helix HX for your effects if you go THR100HD means that you should probably look at getting hold of a full fat helix and running it into the FoH live and through monitors at home. 

Really not sure that digital stuff is more likely to break than valve amps. 

crunchman

AndrewM said:

Really not sure that digital stuff is more likely to break than valve amps. 

A valve amp is more likely to go wrong, but it's likely to be easier to fix when it does.

I've not had many major problems with valve amps, but I've had valves go bad at inopportune times on several occasions.

Running costs will probably be lower with digital as well.  You won't have to replace valves, and the power consumption is lower.

Phil_aka_Pip

I think you should find the amplifier you like the sound of, then get a Speaker Emulator to go with it. @crunchman is right about running costs, but to my mind if you like the sound of an amplifier, that's why you bought it and the running costs are coincidental. They shouldn't be bank-breaking. Likewise fixability: most competent audio engineers can fix a valve amp, if digital stuff breaks you probably have to replace it.

Tenebrous

olafgarten said: You could just get 2 Katanas.

Sounds like something out of Kill Bill. I bet that'd sound killer though.

As for the whole Valve vs Digital thing, I'm with Crunchman - I'm pretty confident in my skills with a soldering iron, and I reckon, with some help, there's a good chance I'd be able to get a faulty piece of tube gear back up & running (or maybe I've just watched too many Guitologist videos & think it's easier than what it is ) - And honestly, this is something I want to try, but not right now. Once I've got a rig once again that I'm happy with, that's when I'll start buying things to tinker with them.

The powered Kemper really does look like the best solution in a lot of ways, but having £1800-1900 tied up in a single unit... I'm not sure I can justify that - Especially if something were to go wrong.

@AndrewM I like the idea of going straight into a Helix & through two monitors, though. That'd be pretty much a similar setup to what I had all those years back with the GSP1101 & a pair of M-AUDIOs. Only difference is I'd have a full pedalboard, 10 years of extra guitar technology to go along with it But then it'd come down to the Helix vs the GT-1000. My gut tells me to go Boss, as I love their effects, and I know that it'll still work in 10 years time, but on the flipside, I've heard better amp sounds from the Helix, and I've seen very little to suggest that the Helix isn't an incredibly stable & durable piece of kit.

Collings

Tenebrous said:

So, I did a bit more research on the Katana.

If I wanted to use it with a Helix FX/Boss GT1000 later down the line, I feel like I'd be somewhat inhibited by the lack of a stereo effects loop for recording (but I guess for those times I need dedicated stereo sounds, I could just run a GT-1000 straight into the PC). So far, it's my leading choice - The Katana Artist, with a GT-1000 and a pair of monitors further down the line.

I just brought a Katana Artist this weekend.

I've been using high end valve amps since I started playing some 40 yrs ago and finally decided its too much agro trying to continue to use my valve amps at home and I wanted a simple  all in one grab and go amp I could use without pedals at home but could also handle gigs if I did not want to carry a weighty valve amp.

I had read all the great reviews of the Katana but never tried one before but I saw an Artist on Gumtree locally at at great price so thought I'd give it a try.

I'm frankly staggered at how good it sounds. I had it in a studio practice room yesterday alongside my Friedman Dirty Shirley and it stood up really well in comparison. You'd have to be very pick'y to fault the Katana given the price difference.

thecolourbox

As a relative newcomer to the GSP1101, I'm finding that it's pretty nifty kit still albeit not as flexible as the new Helix et al. There is a discussion thread of it in the FX section. With the beta firmware installed you get the IR speaker sim functionality that helps a lot with the modelling quality. They are also considerably less spendy than a full fat Helix so that you could get one with an HX Effects (use it 4 Cable method and use midi to switch presets on both units) and have the best of both worlds?

mr-mac

Gsp1101 And/or 4 cable em with your choice of amp... Or 1u power amp in a 2u rack case and just need a cab or full range speaker for out and about/jamming with others.