Strat SSS to HSH... Now Sorted.

Alnico

After this weekend and the Huddersfield Birthday Party Jam I will be removing my loaded scratchplate from my Strat and selling it to fund a whole new Scratchplate build in HSH format.

If you don't buy it from me at the Jam session (which people can if they want to, I'll just unscrew it and disconnect it before I go home) it'll be in the classifieds next Monday.

They're a set of Seymour Duncan 'Classic' Stack humbuckers in black and the black Fender plate and all the parts were bought new for it too, about a year ago. All CTS pots and a Fender switch.

It cost £340 in parts to build and there's only light playing marks on it so I reckon £190 is fair.

Here it is for reference...

https://i.imgur.com/qcVjYvD.jpg

Assuming I can get £190 for my current set up, my total budget for the new one is £250.

That has to include a new switch and three pots which is roughly £35 and a new plate to start from is roughly £30 so £185 on actual pickups.

I've so far looked at the EMG Steve Lukather fully loaded plate (85/SLV/SLV) and making one up out of Seymour Duncan JB, J and JBjr.

I've also looked at just having an HH format and using Oil City pickups which I can just about afford in HH format and would ultimately love to just go and buy for the HSH set up but money won't allow it.

One idea I quite liked is to buy an HSH plate anyway (Same price as HH) but only fit it up as HH for now, fitting the single coil in the middle at a later date. That would mean I could afford Oil City and that's what I'd like more than anything. For me they're the best pickups on earth. I've had the single coils before but never humbuckers.

I play mainly Rock (Iron Maiden would be a good benchmark in terms of what sound I'd like) and I'd like to play more Rock and Metal on the Strat but I'd like to still be able to cover other genres and also split at least the neck pickup to get somewhere back to a single coil sound when I need to.

Who's put humbuckers in Strats before and which ones did you like and dislike, particularly those who installed 'Hot Rails' to keep the SSS format. How were they in reality compared to a full size humbucker.

Any help, opinions or experience are much appreciated.

Gassage

Yes.  Don't do it. Get a Cornell midboost instead

Winny_Pooh

Bridge pickup is the main obstacle here IMO. Why not buy an HSS plate & get a decent used full size humbucker? Neck humbuckers lack attack in my personal opinion. There's a reason HSS seems the most popular config for Suhrs/Anderson etc.

mudslide73

I very much like Ash's A2 Nightfighter with Stonetones. I'm not sure which neck humbucker I'd go for though.. 

drwiddly

It's always the bridge pickup in Strats and Strat style guitars that lets them down for me. Like you I play a lot of heavyish rock (Maiden, Y&T, Dio, etc.) and s/c bridge pickups are just too weedy IMHO.

I have a G&L S500 and, whilst the MFD pickups were punchier than most s/c's, the bridge still lacked power so I changed it for an Oil City Masterwound Hot Rails s/c sized humbucker. I have to say it's definitely the best pickup of its type I've ever tried. The guitar sounds amazing now and has gone from being a bit of a case queen to a regular gigging machine.

Jonathangus

Alnico said:

Who's put humbuckers in Strats before and which ones did you like and dislike, particularly those who installed 'Hot Rails' to keep the SSS format.

At the risk of stating the obvious - Dave Murray?

Edit: and Janick Gers.

Schnozz

I like HH now - If you add a coil split then it's more manageable than switching the S and having a sudden drop in volume.

Alnico

Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far.

Winny_Pooh said:

Bridge pickup is the main obstacle here IMO. Why not buy an HSS plate & get a decent used full size humbucker? Neck humbuckers lack attack in my personal opinion. There's a reason HSS seems the most popular config for Suhrs/Anderson etc.

I had considered this, which is what led me to the EMG Lukather set up. I still quite like the Idea of that.

Jonathangus said:

Alnico said:

Who's put humbuckers in Strats before and which ones did you like and dislike, particularly those who installed 'Hot Rails' to keep the SSS format.

At the risk of stating the obvious - Dave Murray?

Edit: and Janick Gers.

Thanks, I did realise that but I guess I more meant who *here* had used them and how did they sound in the real world. I know those two use them and there must be a good reason, I get that but I wondered if people had fitted them and tried using them for other styles, heavier or not and how did they perform there.

As great as the stacked humbuckers are, they're just not enough for the music I want to play.

I had an idea earlier to wire up the bridge and neck on a 3-way switch with a master volume and tone and then wire the middle pickup to a second volume and into the master tone, so it's a blend circuit and I can have all 3 pickups or blended combinations. Also, both volume controls can be push-pull so all 3 will split assuming of course that the middle pickup is an SC sized humbucker.

Jonathangus

Alnico said:

Jonathangus said:

Alnico said:

Who's put humbuckers in Strats before and which ones did you like and dislike, particularly those who installed 'Hot Rails' to keep the SSS format.

At the risk of stating the obvious - Dave Murray?

Edit: and Janick Gers.

Thanks, I did realise that but I guess I more meant who *here* had used them and how did they sound in the real world. I know those two use them and there must be a good reason, I get that but I wondered if people had fitted them and tried using them for other styles, heavier or not and how did they perform there.

Yeah, I kinda thought that's why you were considering them. 

But - aren't they integral to the modern Maiden sound?  Especially now they've got three guitarists, having the clarity of SC-sized 'buckers means that the whole thing doesn't mush out.

FWIW, I have a Custom and two Quarter Pounders in my Charvel bitsa; the Custom has a split, but I don't tend to use it much - it sounds a bit weedy next to the QPs.

Alnico

Jonathangus said:

Alnico said:

Jonathangus said:

Alnico said:

Who's put humbuckers in Strats before and which ones did you like and dislike, particularly those who installed 'Hot Rails' to keep the SSS format.

At the risk of stating the obvious - Dave Murray?

Edit: and Janick Gers.

Thanks, I did realise that but I guess I more meant who *here* had used them and how did they sound in the real world. I know those two use them and there must be a good reason, I get that but I wondered if people had fitted them and tried using them for other styles, heavier or not and how did they perform there.

Yeah, I kinda thought that's why you were considering them. 

But - aren't they integral to the modern Maiden sound?  Especially now they've got three guitarists, having the clarity of SC-sized 'buckers means that the whole thing doesn't mush out.

FWIW, I have a Custom and two Quarter Pounders in my Charvel bitsa; the Custom has a split, but I don't tend to use it much - it sounds a bit weedy next to the QPs.

Having had no experience with SC sized humbuckers, I think that's why I'm asking. Yeah you're dead right it's because of Maiden I looked at them but I'm aware that either live or in the studio what I'm hearing is way more than just those pickups and an amp. Even taking into account the effects they use, if any, it's still going to go through all kinds of other pro gear that will enhance the sound somehow. That's not what I'll get at home or in the 'Dog & Duck' so it's that real-life, everyday thing I'm wondering about.

You say normal humbuckers can get muddy and I get that too but would the SC sized ones be too bright or is that a popular myth created by people who don't know how to set up amps? I read that somewhere years ago in passing but never followed it up any further.

If I put the full-size humbuckers in isn't there something that can be done with the cap and value of the pots to brighten or darken the tone?

I know next to FA about electronics but I think I remember hearing Jon @FelineGuitars talk about using 570k pots for a more discernable "hump" in the taper and a quicker roll off of volume.

Would the higher value pot in that instance also brighten the full-size humbuckers a bit?

I've got another single coil guitar and a P90 guitar so I want this Strat to be almost the Anti-Strat in terms of traditional sounds. This is my expensive (To me), main guitar and I want it to do more than just sound like a traditional Strat.

Next year I'm swapping the 2 point tremolo for a recessed Non-fine-tuner Floyd Rose to complete its refinement so this is the last but one job to get right.

It started off as an American Pro but the aim is to refine that as much as possible into my perfect guitar.

JMP220478

If I put the full-size humbuckers in isn't there something that can be done with the cap and value of the pots to brighten or darken the tone?

I know next to FA about electronics but I think I remember hearing Jon @FelineGuitars talk about using 570k pots for a more discernable "hump" in the taper and a quicker roll off of volume. 

Would the higher value pot in that instance also brighten the full-size humbuckers a bit?


Ive got a shawbucker strat - its got a dual pot - 250k for singles / 500k for HB  - wired to std five way ..  so you can get round any of the pot value dilemma .. 

re I've also got an old squire with fender s/c from a modern in neck / middle with a lil'59 in bridge - its a nicely balanced set and the '59 is voiced nicely to give a darker fatter more compressed HB style - meaty enough for maiden not sure .. but others ie hot rails maybe worth a punt - try one s/h that you can flip if it doesnt work .. 

re your loaded scratchplate sale - not sure about your pricing - might be worth breaking into component parts to get a faster sale - otherwise you're looking for someone who wants exactly that config - could take a while ..

If you're desperate for a HH strat - you could get a Charvel San Dimas type from around £350 - I think that would cover your Maiden requirements 

Alnico

Thanks, that's some good information. I didn't know about "Dual Pots".

Pricing the loaded plate and selling it like that was really just an idea to make it more sellable and way easier for someone to fit. Splitting it up has its pitfalls too in that I don't want to be left with any of it unsold and then have no pickups in my Strat for ages however that said I do take your point and it probably goes both ways for each way of doing it.

I'm not desperate for an HH Strat as such, this is just part of the journey for this Strat. I've always known from day 1 brand new that it was going to be a modified, modern Strat and this is just part of that. I've got no room or inclination for another guitar (Not a Charvel anyway) and it's not really about Iron Maiden, that was just the easiest example of a type of sound I could find.

What inspired the HSH thing was watching Guthrie with his new guitar and it just made me think I could do much more with my main guitar, hence not just diving into Hot Rails and looking about.

The biggest surprise to me has been how much I like the Idea of the EMG Lukather set up, despite it being HSS.

There's something about EMG's for me.

I've also not discounted the idea @Winny_Pooh mentioned of keeping my existing neck and middle pickups and selling the plate, pots and bridge pickup to replace them with a full-size humbucker and a new plate. Again, this is a good idea and might even turn out to be the easiest way forward.

I'll be using the guitar a lot this weekend (hopefully) so I'll see what people think of the neck pickup sound and probably go from there.

I've got nothing against the pickups I've got, they're very good but the guitar does need more power behind it somehow and although it's a bit daft to consider from this angle, I also really like the way HSH looks on a Strat.

Maybe that last bit is just me being daft, I'm not 100% sure.

One thing I'm struck by though is that I'm grateful to Fender for routing the body to HSH at the factory. I'm not sure how much having routing work done (Properly) would add to the cost but I can't see it being less than £50, so that's nice to have in place already.

Thanks again for the suggestions guys.

darthed1981

I love and GAS this Strat, it's got a nifty Duncan single-coil sized humbucker in it, a texas special in the middle and of course the sustainer.  Maybe you could mix and match a bit, have a nice single coil in the middle and some differently voiced humbuckers, make it all very unique?

Maybe not maiden but some earlier Radiohead stuff had quite a heavy tone...

https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitars/stratocaster/fender-ed-obrien-stratocaster-maple-neck-olympic-white

Fez

I have had a hot rails in a strat for years and it still sounds great. I have two other strats with full size buckers. In fact my main gigging strat has the stock pick ups, this is my favourite configuration as it covers most bases.

Kebabkid

I've enjoyed HSS over HSH even with the latter having coil taps.

I use a Seymour Duncan Little '59 in the bridge of one of my HSS Strats and it has the fullness and thickness of a HB but it also imparts some pleasing Strattiness in there, which could be down to its physicality and mine is one of the older ones with tape wrapped around it rather than a full plastic casing. There was a stark difference between it and a full-sized SD 59 I had in another guitar and I preferred it.

I've just got a Suhr Alt T Pro and the low output Suhr Thornbuckers (voiced to be like vintage PAFs) are very good in full and split mode and I'd imagine they would work very well in a HSH or SSH set up. I like them a lot!

As you talk about 'making one up' out of Seymour Duncan pickups, are you aware of the 'Everything Axe Loaded' with the Little '59 in the neck, Duckbucker in the middle and JB Jr in the bridge?

Alnico

Kebabkid said:

I've enjoyed HSS over HSH even with the latter having coil taps.

I use a Seymour Duncan Little '59 in the bridge of one of my HSS Strats and it has the fullness and thickness of a HB but it also imparts some pleasing Strattiness in there, which could be down to its physicality and mine is one of the older ones with tape wrapped around it rather than a full plastic casing. There was a stark difference between it and a full-sized SD 59 I had in another guitar and I preferred it.

I've just got a Suhr Alt T Pro and the low output Suhr Thornbuckers (voiced to be like vintage PAFs) are very good in full and split mode and I'd imagine they would work very well in a HSH or SSH set up. I like them a lot!

As you talk about 'making one up' out of Seymour Duncan pickups, are you aware of the 'Everything Axe Loaded' with the Little '59 in the neck, Duckbucker in the middle and JB Jr in the bridge?

I am aware of the 'Everything Axe' set, as I am of the fully loaded DM sig plate with 3 hotrails (But for £350 the DM plate is a bit too much of a stretch).

I think I was trying to get away from the SSS format of the guitar and for some reason I've previously thought of SC sized humbuckers as a compromise, so I'd fixed on fitting full-size pickups.

My favourite option so far is to get two Oil City, full-size humbuckers and hang out for a middle pickup a month or so later.

I've also settled on selling the pickups separately, the plate on it's own and the wiring harness/pots/switch as one.

I can't really advertise them until after the weekend as I'm planning on using them in this guitar but as soon as I'm done in Huddersfield I'll post them up for sale.

Alnico

All bets are off.

Played this guitar at gig volume at the weekend and I'd massively underestimated these SD Classic Stacks.

It's staying SSS and nothing is getting swapped out.

They sound Fookin' Awesome played loud.

Thanks for the advice though, I appreciate peoples insight.